Saturday, February 11, 2017

WOLVES IN SHEPHERDS' CLOTHING

Fine clothes are good only as they supply the want of other means of procuring respect. Johnson

As we were leafing through old files in preparation for the recent posts on the betrayed Michiganders at Saint Dominic's, we came across a letter that classically illustrates the wrong-headedness of trad attitudes toward cult "bishops."

In a pair of sniffy rebukes to a gutsy Highlander who spoke truth to Tradzilla, a misinformed Big-Don-brown-noser wrote in 2005:
The ordination of [the Skipper*] was a good reminder for all of us of the profound respect that is owed to our priests...The dignity of a priest demands us, as mere morals, to yield a respect that is not given to any other [sic!] layperson...You and certain others have not given [the Donster] the deference that his office deserves...It is not for the laity to pick and choose when a priest is owed respect and when he does not deserve it, for the dignity of his office is, at all times, present...In the eyes of the Church we are not equal to them. 
Oh, for pity's sake! Where to begin? There's so much that's wrong here.

We suppose we ought to start by reminding everyone (again!) that Tradistani "clergy," notwithstanding the valid orders of some, belong to a sect entirely separate from the Roman Catholic Church. They have no ecclesiastical commission, for they were ordained and/or consecrated without the Church's consent. In fact, their orders were conferred without authorization from any Christian body because Tradistan itself isn't organized as a confession; it cannot even be said to be confederacy of narrow, selfish interests.  It's a no-man's land of sharp-elbowed, sub-educated free-lancers who self-declare their election and then find some mitered moron willing to do it.

In the eyes of the Church, they're laymen just like us, albeit with the difference that some may have sacerdotal and some episcopal character. (Was our self-admitted, home-schooled apologist merely ignorant of English usage [and correct reference] when he insisted a "priest's" dignity "demands... a respect that is not given to any other layperson"? Or was his remark a tattle-tale Freudian slip?) When you get right down to it, the "priests" and "bishops" of Tradistan most closely resemble the recalcitrantly scandalous priests in the old days who'd been degraded to the lay estate — deposed from office, incapable of any position in the Church, deprived of clerical privileges, and hence ineligible for the singular deference accorded to clergy in good standing.

It's worth remarking that, unlike a deposed cleric of past years, the Tradistani lone wolves don't possess a title in the Church and don't enjoy an office in the first place. Any deference shown them as clerics, therefore, is grossly offensive to a well-bred Catholic. You see, the term office has a legal meaning. In the perfect and historical society of the Church (and, we might add, in imperfect societies elsewhere), an office has rights and duties, and the acts of the office are "objectively binding on the society."

When the Church installs someone, the office is thereupon divinely conferred. Without the Church's act of installation, the sole "offices" Tradzilla and the other scurvy episcopi vagantes exercise are the private ones defined in the documents of authority of the several insignificant enterprises they run under state or federal laws. No matter what they call themselves in their kiddie corporations, they absolutely, positively do not occupy an ecclesiastical office.

But our cult-addled letter writer's oafish error is understandable. The sede vermin do everything they can to pass themselves off as higher clergy. Chief among the cult kingpins' ruses is vesture. As soon as they're green lighted for consecration, they get kitted out in all the pontifical finery their cash-strapped little chapels can scrape together: rochets, pontifical crosses, ordinary cassocks with amaranth-red silk trimming and lining, mantellettas, purple choir cassocks with trimmings of crimson-red silk, silken purple birettas and calottes, heavy gold rings set with a large central amethyst, simars trimmed with amaranth red, etc. It's no wonder the illiterate culties mistake these vultures passing themselves off as peacocks for the real McCoy.

Yet, despite their flamboyant costuming, American sede "bishops" cannot, in that delicious papal turn of phrase, episcopali charactere præfulgent ("glitter in episcopal character"):  Insofar as their orders were obtained without apostolic mandatethey are not members of the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church. For this reason, a cheeky wag we know once quipped that they were consecrated "on the other side of the blanket."  Being illicitly impressed on lawless souls, their episcopal character is of necessity tarnished.

The practical import of all this is that the sedes are barred by positive ecclesiastical law from the use of pontificals.** Unfortunately, however, civil government, being indifferent or hostile to the sacred prerogatives of genuine churchmen, allows any Tom, Dick, or Harry who styles himself a bishop to dress howsoever he fancies, thereby facilitating the usurpation of others' legitimate entitlements — entitlements legislated by the Vicar of Christ.

One of the purposes of episcopal apparel is to signal to the faithful that the wearer belongs to the "princely hierarchy" of Christ's Church, subordinate to the Sovereign Roman Pontiff.  It also furnishes a visible warrant that the man so adorned has met the qualifications for the dignity of his office as determined by the Holy See, of which the most important are "good moral character, piety, zeal, prudence, and solid learning in theology and canon law." Moreover, pontifical habiliment assures the faithful that before his elevation, the wearer had been formed as a priest in an approved seminary, where he received properly supervised intellectual training under professors with advanced degrees from officially recognized universities or faculties.

No such signs and assurances attend the malformed, jurisdiction-less Tradistani adventurers illegitimately arrayed in the Church's regal garments. On the backs of these "wandering bishops," the once glorious raiment suborns blasphemous deception.

Therefore, clerical outfitters, at least those in Rome like Barbiconi, Gammarelli, I Sarti del Borgo, and, yes, the very down market Euroclero too, should refuse sell to any prospective buyer who does not possess an office in the Catholic Church. But that's hardly realistic. Under tradition-hating Frankie, business for ecclesiastical tailors hasn't been booming, to say the least. As a National Catholic Reporter journalist wrote in 2014,

On the streets of the ecclesiastical fashion district in the center of Rome, the mood is somber.... it seems [Bergie's] personal style, combined with the ongoing economic crisis, is having an impact on business. One store with an elaborate collection of clothing for cardinals, bishops and priests declined to speak to a reporter, while another proprietor conceded: "We are working less; the pope is a simple man."
And so it is that, as the nervous shopkeepers wait out what they hope will prove to be a short pontificate, they're more than willing to take, with a wink and a nod, the dollars of the flush-with-Sunday-collection-money sede impersonators.  (On spendthrift shopping sprees to the Eternal City, boorish trad wannabes have been known to load up on thousands of dollars of bespoke clerical gear.) Hence, like the unwitting purchaser of conflict diamondsRoman tailors trading with U.S. sedes contribute materially to the misery of innocents — viz., the impoverished lay boobs of Tradistan, who consider these mountebanks in fancy dress to be honest-to-goodness bishops of the Roman Catholic Church.

As we all have learned from the cheerleading media, the Bergomeister shoots his mouth off a lot about relieving the poor and oppressed. So far it's been pure lip service and no action. Well, he can fix that right here and now. All he has to do is to issue a decree sanctioning tailoring houses that sell prelatical vesture to any American representing himself as a bishop, whose name cannot be found in the current Annuario Pontificio.

We're not concerned about the resultant financial distress for the Roman ecclesiastical outfitters. The revenue losses will be temporary anyway — Frankie ain't immortal. The greater good is to keep poorly educated, heavily-victimized U.S. rite-trash from being snookered any more than they have been.

Assured our cause is just, we herewith petition Bergie to promulgate immediately an apostolic constitution aimed at stopping sales of prelatical vesture to American phonies, say, by way of a motu proprio titled De quibusdam episcopis vagantibus qui nullis admodum Privilegiis Prælatorum propriis fruuntur.*** To help the old heresiarch get started, we'll even supply the first words: Plani obsiti Pontificalibus...  ("Impostors covered in pontificals..."). We'll be on pins and needles waiting for the rest from the Latin Letters Office in the Secretariat of State of the Holy See.

If Frankie steps up to the plate, Tradistani "bishops" will henceforth be obliged to earn respect in the same way their fellow lay brethren have to — by setting a good example, acting with charity, practicing humility, being reliable, listening and learning, taking responsibility for their actions, going above and beyond what's required, not focusing on themselves, controlling their emotions, acting discreetly, demonstrating integrity, honoring what they say, and refusing to bad-mouth others.

No longer will they be able to play dolly-dress-up and expect everyone to bow and scrape while putting out of mind the unseemly past and the by far nastier present.

SO, C'MON, BERGIE. STOP PICKING ON THE BLUE-BLOODED KNIGHTS OF MALTA, AND DO SOME REAL GOOD!

* For those who've only recently begun reading this blog: "The Skipper" is the imbecilic MHT completer who once skipped the consecration in a Mass, and then blamed the laity, accusing them of making him work too hard. And he's a reminder of the "profound respect" owed to an illicitly ordained "priest"? Give us a break, cultling!

** At best malformed sede petty chieftains might be suffered to wear priest's garb — provided your ecclesiology permits, in these terrible times, a priest to be ordained without incardination and dimissorial letters.

*** "Concerning certain wandering bishops who enjoy no proper privileges of prelates at all." A transparent adaptation of the descriptive caption to Pius X's 1905 decree INTER MULTIPLICES on prelatial privileges, dress, and insignia. In spite of the sedes professed adherence to Church teaching, they thumb their noses at the magisterium by unlawfully appropriating what is not theirs to have. On a more elementary level, the cult masters' usurpation of prelatical vesture not pertaining to their  condition in life is a transgression against a fundamental norm of Catholic decorum.

Several hundred years ago, St. Jean-Baptiste de la Salle wrote a little book on boys' etiquette titled Les règles de la bienséance et de la civilité chrétienne ("The Rules of Christian Good Manners and Civility"). In the chapter on apparel, he sternly counsels that, in outfitting himself, a man "have regard for his condition, because it would not be fitting for....a plebeian to be dressed as a person of quality" ("... ait égard de sa condition; car il ne seroit pas séant qu'un ... roturier estre [= être] habillé comme une personne de qualité," ch. 3, art 1, 1708). 

American sede low-lifes' dressing up as bishops of the Catholic Church is morally equivalent to a snaggle-toothed carnival freak's decking himself out in a Savile Row suit.

75 comments:

  1. What about the permission provided to Bishop Thuc by Pius XI & Pius XII to consecrate bishops without permission that WASN'T EVER officially revoked by any "Pope"?
    Bishop Anthansius Siewert was a Thuc Bishop post 1980's.He was accepted into the Novus Ordo by JP2 & WAS NOT reordained nor reconsecrated.His holy orders were accepted as is end of story.
    If the Thuc line isn't valid as you say,this man and his story completely contradict your blog entry.
    I know about Palmar De Troya & Bishop Thuc renounced them months after Jan 1976.At the time of his conferral of holy orders,that group was stable & highly respected all over Spain & Portugal.They didn't go insane until later that summer.During Jan 1976 many valid priests and highly educated wealthy people attended Palmar De Troya.
    Looking forward to your response. I say this in all due respect.

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    1. Please note that we have NEVER asserted the Thục line was invalid. On countless occasions we have affirmed its general validity along with that of other lines.

      Our specific doubt about "One-Hand Dan's" orders does not stem from his Thục lineage but from the widely affirmed manner of his ordination to the priesthood by Lefebvre. As we replied to a comment last week, if he were to be re-ordained & re-consecrated by, say, Big Don, a Thục-line "bishop," we'd then accept his orders as valid. (For our detailed reasons for doubting Dannie's orders, please click on our monograph THE DUBIETY OF ORDERS CONFERRED WITH ONE HAND at the top of the page under the banner.)

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  2. Dear Anon 1:51 AM

    Note, too, in the post, the Reader specifically conceded that "some" of the cult masters in Tradistan had valid orders. The Tradistanis are all Thục line.

    In addition, whatever the privileges Thục enjoyed, they did not pass to the men he consecrated. That's why PL says that the Tradistanis are illicit, since were not consecrated for the Church. But illicit does not mean invalid. The orders of Big Don and the Jellyfish are certainly valid, but they are still not bishops of the Roman Catholic Church, and do not belong to the hierarchy, and thus do not have the prerogatives of Catholic bishops. We would say the same thing about, say, a Syrian Jacobite.

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  3. Anon Feb 12 1:51
    As a recovering tradie, I cannot stand the dishonesty that these Thuc line "clergy" employ by stating that he had absolute powers to ordain and consecrate. Although it is true that the pope gave him extraordinary powers to OPERATE IN HIS DIOCESE, for the reason of persecution by the communist government, he would automatically lose those powers once he left his diocese. It only follows logic, and I'm afraid that these tradistani cult-mongers haven't the slightest clue as how to apply reason to a situation. If you read the Vatican decree (whether you agree or not) you will see the appropriate application of the codes of canon law, and the humdinger of them all, "IPSO FACTO." Theses are now punch lines for these frauds to justify their existence and to prey on well meaning individuals.

    The other issue at hand is even if they had valid orders, one must possess jurisdiction in order to be valid or licit. Having what I call a "back yard" ordination/consecration without mandate means nothing, other that the excommunication of all taking part. The idea that we the lay folk have the power to depose heretical popes, bishops, and clergy is largely protestant. I do not at all condone the current pope and all his buffoonery, I simply pray and worry about my salvation and that of my family.

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    1. I will look into this as I not sure about the accuracy of this statement.(you could be correct)
      He was removed from his dioceses and told not to return to Vietnam due to threat of assassination.
      If he was placed as wandering bishop,and his papal dispensation not revoked,its possible he had permission to confer holy orders.
      Our Thuc priest has stated he is an emergency Bishop & does not have jurisdiction that Bishop Thuc enjoyed.
      He doesn't dress nor conduct himself as a bishop unless its an ordination,confirmation,and Holy Thursday.
      I can't wrap my mind around Lefevbre,Thuc,and Mendez outright defying the Church and intentionally creating a schismatic non Catholic rite.All 3 bishops (and Bishop Hnilica) had the intention of keeping valid apostolic succession,sacraments,and holy sacrifice of the Mass going until the emergency was over.
      If it's true the church doesn't exist anywhere except in our hearts and minds,the Bible is a lie.Jesus said he would be with us until the end of time & the gates of Hell would not prevail.We can't receive Jesus Christ body blood soul & divinity anywhere except in holy Communion.If the Church doesn't exist anywhere,then its all a lie & perhaps the biggest fraud in the past 2,000 years.

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    2. Then there is no point of having a pope.

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    3. No one denies the office of the Papacy.
      We do reject ecumenical Jewish anti-popes who destroy the Catholic faith from the inside.

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  4. http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19830312_poenae-canonicae_en.html

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  5. We are in major crisis outside the true Catholic Church
    Is it therefore only logical Bishop Thuc would consecrate men with the papal dispensation given to him by 2 consecutive popes
    Until the emergency is over I will agree to disagree
    Thank you for the post I love being challenged especially if said challenge is thoughtful
    Dominus Vobiscum

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    1. The Critic's well-taken point is that the permission to consecrate without mandate was in effect only while he remained in his diocese in Viet Nam.

      We're not students of the archbishop, but we think that he himself knew that the papal concession did not give him leave to consecrate des Lauriers, Carmona, and Zamora. After all, he had earned a doctorate in canon law in Rome at the Pontifical Gregorian University.

      Whatever one's opinion on Thục-line validity, everyone with sense must recognize that the autonomous episcopates in that line are not part of the Roman Catholic Church. Whether one takes "part in or support in any way liturgical activities or initiatives and works of another kind which are promoted by" the illicitly consecrated sedes is a matter of conscience.

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    2. See my reply above @3:47pm

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    3. And don't forget he consecrated 16 (or so) in total, over half of which were nut jobs. This is why he is referred to as "Mad Man Thuc," because he is responsible for ordaining/consecrating felons, children and the most notable, the Palmer de Troya cult.

      As for Anon 2:02,I appreciate your candid approach and honesty. I too was blinded by the lens of sedevacantism, but I had to acknowledge one concept; the church has been in this position before, and not once has there been a mandate to create a parallel church, unless you consider the schismatic sects that broke away throughout her history. This lawlessness is the product of PRIDE, and as such, by their fruits you shall know them. Satan has indeed infected the men who run Christ's Church, so then, who will fight for her? Certainly not Dolan, Piv, Don etc., but those still faithful in the pews each day and who hold to the TEACHINGS of tradition. These cultish renegade bishops are floundering and dying, time is not on their side.

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    4. My response above included the truth about Palmar De Troya & 4 of these supposed consecrations have no basis in reality.There is no proof he ever did those consecrations other than these Oddball's word.

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    5. Reader, if the Thuc line clergy are not members of the Roman Catholic Church (in your view), are you willing to say the same of the SSPX clergy?

      Why or why not?

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  6. St.Ansgar created an entire dioceses in Scandinavia without the Pope's permission.Yes permission was given some time later but in his emergency situation,he created an entire dioceses and operated under supplied jurisdiction.
    St.Anthansius "laid hands" during the Arian crisis outside the jurisdiction of the Church.
    These events have happened before.Its nothing new yet its rare and most people thankfully do not live during times like ours.
    I'm not talking about which priest or bishop is good bad or ugly.I'm simply referring to clerics keep the true church alive during a crisis or emergency.

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  7. And yet, St. Athanasius was STILL loyal to the Holy Father even though he was suspect of heresy. What tradistani clergy are doing now in no way represents what the good saint did nor do they represent the church. There are numerous examples of traditionalism in the church complete with jurisdiction!

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    1. The Arian crisis was a time when St.Anthansius rejected the Pope & was outside "the official church" and did not have jurisdiction from the Church.
      Jorge Benedict JP2 Paul VI are anti popes who are loyal to ecumenical Jewish idolatry and reject the true Catholic faith.
      There is no comparison to a true Catholic pope and a random non catholic communist Anti-Pope.

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    2. Nice to have you back Critic.

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  8. There was a commenter in the last post who said he attends the FSSP, and Pistrina Liturgica said they are better trained than trad priests.

    The FSSP are trained to accept the heresy that Catholics can leave their spouse and marry someone else if they get an "annulment". That is not good training unless someone is learning how to be a heretic.

    Furthermore, people who attend FSSP chapels are kneeling at the communion rail alongside adulterers who are desecrating the Holy Eucharist, with the approval of the "priest" and the entire modernist "hierarchy".

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    1. Can you offer concrete instances where the FSSP have accepted people who leave their spouses and marry again? As for those who have received annulments, the FSSP is only acting within their belief that Rome still has the right to grant the nullifications. That's good training, whether you accept their position or not.

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    2. "Furthermore, people who attend FSSP chapels are kneeling at the communion rail alongside adulterers who are desecrating the Holy Eucharist....."

      How do you know? Do you know the hearts and minds of all the people that attend various churches around the world? Even if they did, it is their sin. Sinful, prideful and overreaching is the trad mind....

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    3. The specific instances of adulterers receiving Communion in FSSP is well known. However, we are not at liberty to divulge their identities.

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    4. "How do you know? Do you know the hearts and minds of all the people that attend various churches around the world?"

      If a Catholic is married and leaves his/her spouse, getting a so-called "annulment" and marries again, he/she is living in adultery. Our Lord Himself said so. To answer your question, that's how I know that.

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    5. The point to be made is that ultimately needs to be made is why do you care? You obviously have the true faith in tradlandia. And I might add, how do you know that the person next to you at the communion rail isn't a public sinner? You will be surprised at how many traddies are such and can hide it. So then, the church consists of sinners, public ones at that, yet you have jumped ship when the seas are turbulent. Something to think about.

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    6. The problem is a doctrinal one. If the priest believes that people who receive these phony marriage "annulments" are able to receive the wafer, then he either doesn't believe in Catholic teaching on the sacrament of matrimony, or he doesn't believe one needs to be in sanctifying grace to receive holy communion.

      In either case, the priest is a heretic, and it is a mortal sin to assist at Mass said by a heretical priest. Not to mention the fact that if his heresy is the official position of his religion, then his religion is a heretical sect and not the Catholic Church, which can teach no error.

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  9. Getting an "annulment" from the Vatican II "church" and "marrying" again is leaving one's spouse and marrying again.

    To accept that "Rome" or any other human power has the right to dissolve a valid marriage is to be a heretic and not a Catholic.

    That's why the modernist "Church", to which the FSSP belong, is, in your words, "a sect entirely separate from the Catholic Church." Specifically, a heretical sect, since the indissolubility of marriage is a dogma of Faith.

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    1. Wait a second here, 8:00 PM. You're getting your personal opinion of the authority of Vatican establishment mixed up with the facts.

      A so-called annulment, or most correctly a "declaration of nullity of a union reputed to be a marriage," is not a dissolution of a valid marriage. It's a declaration that the marriage was not canonically valid based upon an examination that proved it never was a marriage. Even before Vatican II, the Church issued such declarations, although not in such great numbers as we see today in the Novus Ordo.

      Now you or some of us at PL may deny that modernist Rome and its diocesan tribunals represent the Church and hence have no right to decree the invalidity of a marriage. But not all people who confess themselves to be Catholics hold that opinion. Many believe, in good conscience, that the Apostolic See is occupied by a legitimate pope and therefore, for them, the Church is intact.

      Now, you may vehemently disagree with them, but in their mind the marriages declared as null were so declared because, in their eyes, legitimate diocesan or Roman courts found them so. The Novus Ordo Code of Canon Law (1141) affirms "a marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death." The Latin is exactly the same as we find in the 1917 code (1118), so no one's preaching "heresy," unless you want to condemn the pre-Vatican II Church as well.

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    2. Of course, in certain cases, pre- or post-Vatican II, valid marriages can be dissolved - an extremely interesting prerogative of the Pope's potestas vicaria in the realm of natural law - but never a marriage that is ratum et consummatum.

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    3. From what we can gather from Anon. 8:00 PM's comment, s/he seems to suggest that prior to V-II, the Church never considered some marriages invalid. If that's so, the writer is obviously unaware of a "putative" marriage addressed in canon 1015.4 of the 1917 code. The legal term putativum refers to an invalid marriage that had been celebrated before the Church in good faith by at least one of the parities.

      Perhaps Anon. 8:00 PM was writing hastily to vent his/her rage at the N.O. without giving the matter deeper thought. S/he would have been on firmer ground by critiquing the N.O's seeming disregard of the presumption in favor of the validity of marriage.

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    4. I'm not sure why you think I was venting rage. I was simply relating the teachings of the Church.

      The new church teaches that marriages are invalid if the bride and groom:

      "suffer from grave lack of discretion of judgment concerning essential matrimonial rights and duties" or

      "are not capable of assuming the essential obligations of matrimony due to causes of a psychic nature".

      This is heretical, as the Church teaches that when two people get married, they are married. "Lack of discretion" or inability to assume the obligations of marriage because of a "psychic" nature do not change that. Matrimony is a sacrament instituted by Our Lord, and the Church has no right to change it. This new doctrine that "lack of discretion" renders a marriage invalid is just that — a new doctrine, better known as a heresy.

      The fact that the institution that claims to be the Catholic Church today allows this is just proof that it is a heretical sect like protestantism or Mormonism, and not the Catholic Church.

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    5. There have been several instances where one party of a couple married in a “Novus Ordo” ceremony had his/her marriage declared “invalid” by a traddie “cleric,” who then “allowed” the party to “remarry.” If anon. wants to point a “heresy” finger at the Novus Ordo folks, what about these traddie “clerics,” who have absolutely NO jurisdiction or authority to render such “judgments”? And for a REAL laugher, how about Thomas Droleskey, who – with a wife and kid – had himself ordained a “priest”? Where did his “authority” or “jurisdiction” to do this come from – his lower intestinal tract?? It’s simply amazing how traddies will do anything they damn well please, while simultaneously condemning anyone else who does the same sort of thing.

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    6. The Watcher February 13, 2017 at 5:23 PM – “And for a REAL laugher, how about Thomas Droleskey, who – with a wife and kid – had himself ordained a “priest”?

      Dr. Doolittle had himself made a priest? I recall rumors a few years ago but nothing was verified. Anyone know details, such as when this happened, the bishop who ordained him, etc?
      What seminary did he attend? Does he minister to anyone except his wife and child? What next?

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    7. Watcher, that's QUITE an accusation against Droleskey. Any substantiation for it, beyond rumors and anonymous sources?

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    8. Then bow at the feet of the Jewish Novus Ordo and enjoy yourself goy boy.

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  10. "They didn't go insane until later that summer. During Jan 1976 many valid priests and highly educated wealthy people attended Palmar De Troya."

    "highly educated & wealthy"? How many highly educated & wealthy people buzzed around Jesus Christ? If that's your criteria for what's Catholic, you could certainly be a cultie, a worldling or anything. Also funny that you don't consider the consecration request an indication of insanity--both on the part of Thuc who agreed to do it and those PDT who asked him to do it (messianic complex/ Napoleonic pride). On the other hand if you are contending that it was the Thuc consecration that drove PDT insane how is that an argument for the validity of the Thuc consecrations--seems more an argument that the Thuc consecrations are the work of the devil.

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    1. Anon 3:25

      As the famous canonist Bouscaren wrote, commneting on the 1917 code: "...the Church of Christ serenely claims for herself as part of her commission from her Divine Founder the entire control of the substance of Christian marriage... the Church can and does establish conditions which go beyond the requirements of divine law, and which affect not only the licitness but even the validity of marriage."

      Catholics who still believe the N.O. is the true Church accept that her jurisdiction allows her to determine "the capacity of the parties by establishing impediments."

      Our point is that the FSSP and other tradition-minded Novus Ordites are still thinking like Catholics should, even if you or some of us disagree with their allegiance. They, and millions of others, haven't subscribed to the sede premise, which BTW has not been settled by competent authority. You or the cult kingpins may call them heretics, but that's dispositive of nothing. They are being true to their own principles and are acting consistently. That's more than we can say of some sedes we know. We're aware of one case where a cult "clergyman" encouraged a civil divorce when a spouse went into competition with one of his benefactors. Apparently the marriage bond can be weakened when it comes to putting bread into cult "clergy's" mouths.

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    2. I realize that you have to accept the new dogma on "annulments" because you can't say the Novus Ordo sect is not the Catholic Church, but in all honesty your position makes no sense.

      The quote you cited from the theologian who says the Church can make rules about matrimony is something completely different from the notion of N.O. "annulments". What he's talking about is the Church making rules about Catholics marrying non-Catholics, or making it invalid if a priest gets married, or setting a minimum age for the validity of marriage. These are completely different from the new concept of an "annulment".

      According to the Novus Bogus canon law, an unmarried Catholic man and woman of mature age can go through the marriage ceremony and freely consent to marry each other, in a ceremony that neither the "priest" (or deacon sometimes now), nor the witnesses, nor the couple themselves had any doubt about as far as its validity went. Then, several decades later, when they start having marriage problems, one of them can go back in time and claim that he/she didn't have the right "judgment" or "discretion" when s/he got married, and therefore the marriage was never valid to begin with despite what was as plain as day at the time. But magically somehow their children are not bastards. Amazing, isn't it?

      If you think the latter case is equivalent to the former examples just because they both are called by the same name, then I guess it's understandable why you think this new heretical sect is the same as the Catholic Church of all times just because it's called by the same name.

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    3. I said 'highly educated & wealthy' because Palmar wasn't associated with fringe lunatics at that point.It was one of the few places in the West at that time to keep Catholic tradition alive.
      I said nothing else stop putting words in my mouth.
      Secondly,Bishop Thuc was keeping traditional holy orders and sacraments alive,no different from SSPX or SSPV.

      Delete
  11. Hi Critic,nice to hear your comments again.

    In your sede days,were you with CMRI/SGG?What made you see the errors.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Does it matter?
      Decision made, keep going.

      Delete
    2. And what a good decision it was, no matter what the motivating factor.

      Delete
    3. Uh...where are we going?

      Delete
  12. Notice in SGG's weekly newsletter, they mention that Father Jenkins is worried about his faithful attending one of SGG's masses? Didn't a good number of Dolan's faithful leave for Jenkin's parish in 2009 (and never returned!)? Interesting comment from Dolan, when the opposite has been true for at least the last 7-8 years.

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    Replies
    1. Of course, we only have Dannie's word for it that Jenkins is "worried about the number of his faithful who often attend St. Gertrude the Great." Remember: Dannie was just presuming that worry was the reason for Jenkins' videos.

      For all we know, Dannie could be just blowing smoke to try to counter Jenkins' punch. It's a typical cult scare tactic especially when Dannie knows it's HIS people who are often seen in attendance at IC, as you indicated.

      For our part, we simply do not believe "One Hand." He's the one who's lost members. It's his folk who aren't attending his Lenten money-making side shows. And he's the one worried about Jenkins' questioning Thục orders, just like Tony Baloney used to deny them before Dannie himself became a Thục-line "bishop."

      Delete
  13. Irony is that Dolan was consecrated by CMRI, yet, Sanborn and company privately tell their parishioners that they can't attend CMRI. So, wouldn't, by default, Sanborn's parishioners be unable to attend SGG?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's logical, but then there's no logic in Tradistan. Expediency rules. That's surely why the Donster allows Dannie to "ordain" his completers.

      Also, another question is why did Big Don visit the Australian chapel served monthly by the CMRI? Seems like he should have demanded they disavow the association.

      Delete
    2. I was baffled by recent MHT newsletter where DS seemed to adopt the moral yardstick that since this group was charitable to HIM (to reiterate: paid $7000 for airline ticket, $100 a night for hotel, all expenses & a $30 zoo trip), attended HIS conferences (for hours on end for 14 days) and had him to dinner every night while wanting to have nothing to do w/the NO that made them good people. The whole newsletter seemed to be trying to sell this group to his audience, but he's not quite sure about them (like imagine how embarrassing if this group were to read his NL). And yet he never mentions the 300 lb CMRI elephant in the room. Imagine St. Paul writing this epistle (or any of the other apostles).

      Delete
    3. Has Sanborn kept anyone that Dolan has ordained? IF not, then that would seem like he will eventually break from the SGG group as soon as he ordains enough to break free and not need them anymore. I think that time is getting pretty close, and Cekada's illness has given them opportunity and cause to keep them away from the seminary.

      Delete
    4. Reader 11:40 AM

      Your 2nd para: no Bp to Bp level of communication was followed. BpS has travelled to areas or countries where CMRI are, been there for years.

      Wait for things to unfold.

      Delete
    5. Great observation about selling what is an essentially CMRI outpost to his U.S. fans, who thought they were supposed to hate the CMRI.

      Did you notice how coyly Tradzilla described Gilchrist? He was merely "associated with with CMRI." Being a sede, however, must have redeemed him.

      Do you think that $7000 worth of frequent-flyer points may have had any influence on his decision to leave his principles in the waiting area of the airport?

      Delete
    6. I'm not sure he ever had any. Once heard a sermon of his where he was talking about how Catholic families didn't respect the clergy and religious the way they had in his generation. To illustrate, he said that when he was young if you got in trouble at (Catholic) school, first you would get it at school and then you would get it at home also for getting in trouble at school & shaming the family. To avoid "getting it" at home he said he once purposely walked the long way home so that he could answer w/out lying that the reason he was late was that he walked the long way home (rather than the full truth that he was late because he'd gotten in trouble in school and had to stay after and THEN he'd walked the long way home).

      What is so disheartening about SDC is their lack of loyalty to anyone or anything (including God). You can't trust anything they say, but always have to refine/read between the lines as you point out: "associated with." Then as soon as they don't need you or see a way to get ahead of you (having stabbed you in the back (repeatedly & to everyone you know or don't know)) they run you down literally (and figuratively forever).

      Delete
    7. Interesting enough, have you seen their supposed plans for their new cemetary, school and convent? They claim that it will be the holiest of Catholic establishments. I'm curious how they can supoirt a school if they don't promote it within the church? Rumors have it that they don't promote it because the main families don't want others who are not "their kind". From what I have read, I guess their kind means that they don't want families who do not have the economic or social status as they do or maybe that do not agree with beating their kids?

      It is becoming obvious that attendance is dwindling, and thy need to do something to sustain the nuns and the priests' lifestyles. Maybe this is the need for the cemetary? I bet they will start selling the future plots soon since they are hurting for money.

      I'm also wondering If Sanborn is having doubts about ordaining the kid? It seems like once the kid is ordained, there will no longer be a need for him. Maybe that's why he's put it off this long?

      Rumors are swirling about a new family with money coming to the church. Sanborn is expecting some large donations. My guess is they will milk them for whatever they can.

      Delete
    8. "they don't want families who do not … agree with beating their kids".

      No kidding. Children who grow up without discipline turn into little monsters. Who wants people like that around their children?

      Delete
    9. Did I say anything about no discipline, Anon 10:08? No, I said parents who do not beat their kids. I guess you feel beating is ok? We aren't talking about spanking. It is well known close families to Sanborn beat their children. They take little babies less than a year out to the parking lot for a good whooping in the church parking lot on Sunday. Wake-up, cultling.

      Delete
  14. Reader,we are am sure that Sanborn will be sending one of his own "clerics" to Australia and showing Gilchrist the door.Are you aware of the background on Gilchrist.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We think you're right about sending one of his boys to take over. He'll soon have another mouth to feed, so he needs to shift one of these bums off to another group.

      Yes, we're aware, to a certain degree, of G's problems. We also expect that Tradzilla knows of them too, which matt have played a role in his recent visit. Plus, he's got to repay the CMRI for their recent coup. (More about that in due time.)

      Delete
  15. Anon 5:46, I have seen them do this over and over again. I would have to agree with you.

    And when his sermons have said that you shouldn't need to use physical punishment often if you do it correctly, what he means is that if you beat your kids hard enough, they should never be able to forget it. I've heard of some of his parishioners in Michigan/Florida beating their kids so bad they passed out or almost did.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Almost did or died?

      Delete
    2. Almost "did", as in almost passed out.

      Delete
    3. Anon Feb 15 at 7:22 PM

      There are many doors.
      You know that yourself.

      Delete
    4. Clearly, why is all these happening? Because there is NO Pope, NO Monarchy, NO Peace.

      The Expo in Astana, the capital of the New World Order, is from June to September. The Holy See is to have a pavilion there. What is the Holy See doing with the New/Jew World Order?

      Delete
    5. At least a Kazakhstani archbishop criticized the Vatican for the appointment of liberal bishops and its policy of political correctness. Maybe the retired Abp. Lenga will make it uncomfortable for them there.

      Delete
  16. Hello PL

    I have had a feeling for quite sometime that MHTS/Big Don have their eye on some of the CMRI missions.I agree let the events unfold.Most interested to hear more on the recent CMRI coup.Pax Vobiscum.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It would be worth it to stage a coup at the Vatican.

      Delete
    2. Anon 2/15 10;33 PM

      We've been receiving emails from all over the country about the coup. The trouble is, we can't confirm them completely yet. From what we can gather, the cult is angry and trying its hardest to foul up the works.

      The reports are credible, since the information they contain is consistent. However, until we are 100% certain, we'll keep silent. Rest assured that we'll post as soon as everything is "official."

      Delete
    3. Reader,I have a feeling that Piv/CMRI may have taken over several SGG/MHTS missions.Look forward to the info

      Delete
  17. 11:23 PM

    Historically a period of gross corruption in the Papacy of the tenth and early eleventh centuries was ended by the intervention of the Holy Roman Emperor. Now perhaps military intervention by Donald Trump is unrealistic, but perhaps the results of an investigation into how much of a Soros b**** Bergie the Bad had become could be waved under his Argentine nose. The suggestion could be made that a dossier of bad stuff, factual bad stuff might fly if he doesn't resign immediately.

    CMRI as it is now was born from a coup, the overthrow of the Old Catholic consecrated Francis Schuckardt. It will be interesting to hear something on the new turmoil which has been confirmed.

    I found this link (http://www.bishopschuckardt.com/biography.html) which puts forward the case of those who stuck with the original founder.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Time is running out for the devil and everything/everyone must be turned upside down, practically.

      Delete
    2. Vatican City stamps will celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation. They must be Protestants as well.

      Francis has been flirting with the Lutherans & Anglicans. SSPX Bp Fellay flirts with Francis ... a long story, isn't it?

      Reader: I'd rather be right than politically correct!

      Delete
    3. The situation is confusing, to say the least. All we know is that Tradistan is not the answer. We hope Fellay is flirting so that he can subvert from within.

      Delete
  18. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Is it true, as Dannie says, that, before Vatican II, the USA was the only country in the world that kept the full 40 days fast of Lent?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Two of the Readers who lived for a while in Europe during the '50s don't recall exactly what the native-born citizens practiced. Their American parents personally kept the fast, but since they were under 21 at the time, they were not bound. One of the Readers had a number of native-born friends from the country where he resided, but since they were of his age, they wouldn't have been bound to fast at the time either.

      Perhaps others would be in a better position to comment on this question. For now, all we can say is that you should take with more than a grain of salt anything Dannie says until you can verify it independently.

      Delete