Last week's game really rocked, didn't it? One e-mail correspondent asked if amputation was an option, but that very effective remedy belongs to another dispensation, we fear. This week's game is a little different from the first and second. If you brought grandma along on the road trip, let her do the reading ... but be warned: She may want to stop immediately to call her lawyer and change her will. (Click here to review the rules of play.)
Gas up, put the pedal to the metal, and away we go with case #3, which we assembled from numerous documents, a newspaper account, and oral reports from fans:
A deceased member of a chapel under the malign care of a dishonorable sede gang had conditionally bequeathed to the chapel an estate valued at the time between $60,000 - $85,000 to erect a shrine to the Infant Jesus of Prague and, if some money remained, to establish another shrine to the Blessed Virgin Mary. If the remaining funds were insufficient to erect the second shrine, the terms of the will permitted the pastor or the laymen in charge to use the residue of the corpus as they saw fit. Breaking with their usual practice of letting the chapel coordinator handle all bills and accounts, the insolent priests transfer the money to their account at an out-of-state bank. The laity wait six months for a sign that the shrine(s) will be built, and then lose faith in these conniving priests. The lay coordinator, a founding member of the chapel and a successful business owner, raises questions about the handling of the money. For his meritorious fidelity to the pious last wishes of the testatrix, one of the scumbag priests bans the gentleman from chapel property and forbids his attendance at chapel affairs. (The weirdo priest accuses him of fomenting "dissension, intrigue, murmuring and the like.") When the now-former coordinator appears at an evening meeting of the chapel, the police are called to escort him from the premises. A majority of the chapel invites the slime-bucket priests to leave. There is the inevitable lawsuit. The lay people prevail and get the money and their property back. Later they turn the chapel over to the diocese as an indult-Mass center. Today an impressive, newly built parish-church operated by the FSSP occupies the original site. The chapel is thriving, and boasts a new Berghaus pipe organ.First, consider that these savage priests must have been raised by wolves. Second, consider their impiety. Also, take into account that had these greedy clerics complied with the will in the first place, the chapel might still be independent of the Novus Ordo. You may not forego punishment on the grounds that they were deprived of the bequest and the property by the adverse decision in the lawsuit and thus have suffered enough. You must exact punishment for their (1) contempt for common decency and the reverent wishes of a devout Catholic and (2) the loss of souls.*
* One day, the full story of this shameful incident needs to be told in full. The clerical shenanigans will make any decent person's blood boil. The laity were successful here because this chapel was lucky enough to have a large number of professional people (including former armed-services officers) who knew the difference between right and wrong, and who weren't intimidated by bottom-feeding priests. Also, one of the decedent's brothers got involved and put his foot down when he sensed these scheming priests were up to no good. But Travelers' Tribunals don't need to know this in order to vote guilty and hand down justly harsh punishment.
HAVE NO MERCY ON THESE MERCENARIES:
GIVE 'EM THE MAX.
So I guess this would be a story with a semi-happy ending. It's good that they got their money & property back, but sad that they turned it over to the NO - even if they get a new pipe organ. A proper punishment would be for these priests to wander in the desert for 40 years.
ReplyDeleteA very appropriate punishment. Sadly, they have been wandering in the desert of Tradistan for the last quarter century, where they have found gullible prey who fall for their foolishness.
DeleteAs aliquid pravists, we look on the bright side. NO or not, these people have a vibrant Catholic parish life and they will certainly resist Bergie when necessary.
So these people kicked out valid priests and replaced them with invalid Novus Ordo priests from the FSSP who can't absolve them and worship bread on Sunday morning, and they're better off how again???
DeleteThere's no absolute proof that NO orders are invalid. That's a theory proposed by malformed sede clerics with a vested financial interest. Besides, not all sede priests are indubitably valid. "One-Hand Dan" and the 14 unfortunates he's ordained are likewise tarred with the suspicion of invalidity. We need the Restoration to decide both the question of NO orders and one-handed conferral of priestly orders.
DeleteThat's hilarious. You wax scrupulous over a tiny detail that you claim went wrong at Bp. Dolan's priestly ordination, and tell people that because of that they should stay home. Then you have no problem with clergy ordained in the radically changed new rite of Ordination, and think it's fine for people to go to them.
DeleteYour agenda is clear.
First of all, its was no small detail in Dolan's ordination: after 1947, one-handed conferral must be regarded as a serious defect, the effect of which on validity we cannot know until the Restoration. In addition, as in Dolan's case, no one knows for certain whether NO orders are invalid. Years ago even rabid sedes could go no further than to say they were just doubtful. Finally, almost any other traditional Catholic group is better than the ravenous vultures of Tradistan with their half-baked, overly simplistic, and deeply self-interested ecclesiology.
DeletePlease explain how there isn't a double standard here. It sounds like you're saying people should stay away from Bp. Dolan's orders because they're doubtful, but they can go to the FSSP because, even though they use the changed Holy Orders (which is radically contrary to Sacramentum Ordinis), the Church hasn't decided that they aren't valid. Can you see the problem here?
DeleteBesides, sedevacantist priests aren't the only ones who question the validity of Novus Ordo sacraments, including Holy Orders. There was Dr. Coomaraswamy, for example (yes I know he was ordained at the end), and plenty of priests in the SSPX, as well as numerous laypeople who never heard of either Bp. Dolan or Fr. Cekada.
We, too, have questions about NO orders, just as we have questions about Dolan's and those of his ordinati. Ideally, all these men should be re-ordained conditionally by an indubitably valid bishop before we could put our doubts to rest. However, for those souls who find they must attend Mass, we think the FSSP is a much more spiritually healthy place to be. First, FSSP priests are far better formed, and second, with them there is at least a chain of command through which any grievances may be submitted.
DeleteYour problem is that you have uncritically accepted the hypothesis that NO orders are invalid. We, on the other hand, are not so gullible. As we've said, the on-going ecclesial crisis since VII is unprecedented in Church history, and as such it presents an unfathomable mystery. The pipsqueak, malformed sede clergy haven't the training or the brief to pronounce authoritatively on these matters. All we can say is that there's something wrong, and we embrace all others who confess the same creed, especially when they are not mammonites. (As an aside, if you look at images of NO ordinations, you will find that at least they use two hands.)
Your comments, Anon. 7/7 5:44 PM, have perplexed us in another way, which necessitated a separate reply. You write of the FSSP that " they use the changed Holy Orders (which is radically contrary to Sacramentum Ordinis)." However, we invite you to view the following FSSP ordination that took place on June 1, 2013:
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MLK02w72pc
If you watch attentively, you'll see that matter and form are in conformance with the requirements of Sacramentum Ordinis and the Pontificale. Even the translation read by the narrator is a verbatim copy of the translation given in the booklet usually handed out at sede ordinations.
You should stop listening to idiot sede scum.
I am aware that the FSSP has their own priests ordained using the traditional rite. However, the problem is that their clergy are ordained by Novus Ordo bishops who *themselves* were "ordained" or "consecrated" using the new rite. That's why I said they have dubious orders, because their orders are derived from dubious Novus Ordo bishops.
DeleteReplying to 6:33 PM:
DeleteYou have said in the past that people shouldn't receive the sacraments from Bp. Dolan or his clergy because they're "doubtful". You insisted in that case that people need to be "absolutely certain" of the validity of their sacraments, and in any doubt they should stay away.
Now, in the case of the FSSP, who derive their orders from Novus Ordo bishops, you seem to admit questions about their validity and think they should be re-ordained. Yet you recommend people to receive the sacraments from them.
Double standard.
Well, then, they are very like Dolan in our book. Just as the NO bishops have doubtful orders, so does Wee Dan. There is positive doubt in both cases. Thus, Dannie's ordinati are as suspect as those of the NO ordained in the traditional rite. What's sad is that Tradistan does have valid bishops who could remove the doubt once and for all from "One-Hand's Unfortunate Fourteen," but nobody wants to wound his pride. How pathetic and un-Catholic. They prefer to let priests spend their lives with the stigma of invalidity rather than do the fix.
DeleteIn reply to 8:03:
DeleteWe don't *recommend* people receive sacraments from anyone with the slightest doubt as to their orders. We just say that if you're not bothered by the doubts and you want to attend Mass, the FSSP is the superior choice, considering the cult's shameful history. BTW, we don't suggest that anyone attend even the few valid Masses of the cult and its affiliates. In the case of the cult, our one real recommendation is to STAY HOME ALONE.
"Thus, Dannie's ordinati are as suspect as those of the NO ordained in the traditional rite."
DeleteSo they're both suspect, but people should stay away from Bp. Dolan, while it's ok to go to the FSSP. Please explain.
"We just say that if you're not bothered by the doubts and you want to attend Mass, the FSSP is the superior choice"
What about people who aren't bothered by the "doubts" about Bp. Dolan? Why don't you leave them in the same peace you leave the FSSP people in?
Some people want to be in a church on Sundays and holy-days. It's part of their personal culture. If that's what they want to do, irrespective of the question of validity of orders, then they should avoid going to a manifest cult. That's all we're saying. The FSSP is not a cult. They're accountable to others outside their group.
DeleteIf people aren't bothered by the Tradistan cult, then they are so depraved that nothing we could say will disturb their peace. They will continue being happily victimized, and we don't bother them one bit.
We realize there will always be a cadre of trash to support sede scumbags. They cannot be rescued, and we're happy to let them squander their family treasure on their money-obsessed, malformed clergy. You can't cure bad judgment or keep all people from gravitating to bad company. However, there are others who have been distracted by all the cult hype and propaganda. Many of these people are fundamentally decent and merit our vigorous intervention.
With Bp. Dolan and his priests, you said, "They are doubtful so don't go."
DeleteWith the FSSP you say, "They are doubtful but you can still go."
Yes, we do, and for the reasons we alluded to above: the FSSP at least possesses institutional accountability, so there's an avenue to redress grievances over bad behavior. With the Dolanite cult, everthing's at the whim of two very self-interested men.
DeleteYou are giving away the identity of the chapel in this story, there is only one in the USA which fits the criteria. What should concern the SV priests is that because of bungling one chapel went from SV to Indult in one jump. That means the Gospel of SV'ism is not really taking that big of a hold on the laity. When push comes to shove they will leave it without a second thought.
ReplyDeleteRemember the movie The Truman Show? After Jim Carrey made his exit, the camera zoomed out to where the watchers of the TV show just changed the channel. This should give any vagus priest the shakes because the laity who have a clue know they can replace priests anytime and can even be replaced by someone who was ordained by an N.O. bishop.
Since the chapel was SSPV my question to you is whether the offending priest(s) stayed with Oyster Bay or did they leave Oyster Bay? Perhaps you should tell the story if you know it in full.
As you know, the unnecessary and nasty dispute lasted for several years. What's so typical of Tradistan is that near the end, the priests had fought among themselves, and one of the chief trouble makers involved left the organization! Actually, most of the unsavory characters who figure in the mess, including the goofy "pastor" who issued the no-trespass letter, also left are now free agents playing the same games.
DeleteWe don't yet have some intermediate documents (but we're looking) so we don't have confirmation of every detail (although we do have several confirming independent reports of those details). If we ever get them, we'll be sure to do a special post.
This group certainly left SVism, but we must remember that, on the whole, they were a cut above the usual traddie trash. As in 2009 with the SGG school scandal, many of the leavers were professional people. It's true that some have returned to the cult, but they have done so with great reservations and admit in private that they do not trust the cult masters. They go for the show, and as such are moral failures, so unlike the majority in this case who acted with decency and rid themselves of scum.
One last point. The role of the seminary at Econe during the 70's needs to be addressed at some point. It remains a mystery to me that such a seminary could produce and ordain such disparate characters like Richard Williamson, Hector Bolduc, Clarence Kelly and Daniel Dolan. I suppose there was no way to conduct a thorough vetting process given the circumstances under which Archbishop Lefebvre operated.
ReplyDeleteI know the focus of this blog was and continues to be Dolan and Cekada. The undeniable fact remains Lefebvre ordained these bad apples. Why? What was he thinking by ordaining deficient men? Was he conned? Some believe they were rotten at the beginning. I do not know if that was the case. Lefebvre's ordination of these men played a role in creating Tradistan. That deserves an examination. Pax tecum.
An excellent point. We've addressed the same question to others directly familiar with the situation at Econe. One answer was that the archbishop knew exactly who these bad apples were, but he wanted to grow his movement so he ordained these men anyway because of their national origin. He was a missionary and as such was pragmatic, doubtless to a fault. Remember that he ordained one man directly against the advice of the man's superior, causing the superior to resign. Organizational advancement triumphed over discretion. There are no heroes in post-modern life.
Delete