All that maddens and torments... Melville
On January 31, Back-Bitin' Dan scratched this catty announcement in his littered "Bishop's (?) Corner":
Fr. Saavedra in Detroit took his Christmas down already. He’s more efficient than liturgical ...
A well-brought-up Catholic layman may reflexively wonder why "One Hand" found it necessary to belittle the already well-flogged Skipper. (as in "skip the consecration at Mass"). Did he really intend to denigrate Big Don? After all, the Skipper belongs to the rector's cult circle, so taking a whack at this stooge is the same as thumping the Donster.
Or maybe after the shellacking His Errancy received from Pistrina over his failed ORDO 2016, he had needed to reassert his liturgical "expertise" for the spittle-faced folks at home. As we've reported earlier, he's withdrawn from sale both the ordo and the wall calendar with all its low-resolution photos of the "really big shows" at the SGG cult-center-and-feeding-grounds. The latter defeat had to have really hurt that insatiable ego of his. No doubt, complaints out of Michigan got under his thin skin, so he had to draw blood, especially when he learned some folks up north are buying the SSPV calendar with its inspiring, sharp, professionally executed, Catholic images.
Come March with the beginning of Daylight Saving Time, those Michiganders will be in luck: zombie DannieLand's calendar WRONGLY announces the DST start as March 6 (LOL), whereas in the world of the living, it begins on March 13. Can't these "experts" at SGG consult reliable websites like timeanddate.com or the U.S. Naval Observatory (click here)? Doesn't anyone down at the cult proofread anything? After springing forward a week early, those Gerties who don't follow Pistrina are going to be in for a rude awakening when they arrive at the cult center on Lætare Sunday! Beggar-Man Dan's collection baskets will be a lot lighter, too. (Rejoice!)
On closer examination, however, spurning SGG's calendar is too trivial of a motive for dragging the goofy Skipper so publicly to the woodshed. Moreover, His Enviousness and Big Don have been trading indirect swipes at each other for years, so why thrash a quivering, semi-conscious whipping boy just to spite the rector? Big Don would laugh cynically anyway. Without a doubt, there was something much bigger on Wee Dan's small mind to prompt such stinging cruelty.
We may (we think) know what's eating His Tenderness. It's just a guess, but it may be worth exploring in order to find out who or what is playing Moby Dick to Dannie's pay-back obsessed Captain Ahab.
You see, for months we've been hearing rumors of the coming of a new, rigorist "bishop" to Tradistan. It's not really news, for it's been planned for decades now. But the hour is ripening. With the passing years, the real power in Tradistan has grown impatient. Since the 2009 SGG School Scandal, the cults linked to Dannie have lost ground. Big Don, never too swift politically, made the error of backing the SW Ohio cult masters when many good people at SGG decided they couldn't tolerate what was happening at the school. The resulting fall-out left our éminence grise only one option: Elevate his Anointed to the sede episcopacy as soon as practicable.
With Dannie's loss of all influence and the validity of his orders in serious doubt, Tradistan, if it hopes to survive, needs a second bishop, one substantially independent of Big Don and very distant from Dannie. The wandering-bishop-to-be is no friend to the SW Ohio gang, reportedly once tarring a cult master with a charge of heresy. It's significant that this prelataster (elected almost from the cradle) wasn't ordained to the priesthood by Dannie, and his patron may well have been behind the rector's own consecration to assure a miter for the Chosen One.
Nothing untoward was to haunt or impede that brilliant career in the ultra-hardshell cult of remotest Tradistan.
When it takes place, the consecration will be the splashiest "clerical cotillion" ever witnessed in Trad Nation. There'll be no large-scale priestly boycott as with "One Hand's." The joint'll be jumpin'! In addition, from recent events, we predict there will be at least one co-consecrator, making this Tradistani brand-new-bishop bash the first of its kind. Miffed as he will be, Dannie will have to attend ─ if he's invited. (That's a very big if, by the way.) He may wrangle to be the second co-consecrator, to give the impression back in West Chester that the consecration came off with his benign approval. But we're not too sure that will be allowed. The power behind the faldstool won't want the occasion spoiled by the maggot with dubious orders who led Tradistan to the brink of ruin in 2009.
If all this speculation proves to be on the mark, then it may explain why Li'l Dan had to rub the Skipper's nose in his liturgical doo-doo. A new, solidly financed, cult-hardliner bishop rockin' Gammarelli pontificals spells the end of the laxist SW Ohio hegemony. With the new bishop's emergence, heralded by a heretofore unseen festive splendor, Tradistan's center of gravity will shift southward, carrying along with it the loyalty of pseudo-clergy attached to SGG. His Superfluousness won't even be allowed to "ordain" the twitching dregs of the pesthouse any more. (He may also be barred from leading retreats.) The reason, IOHO, is that at Tradistan's southern command, bishops are like extra-dry Beefeater martinis: one's not enough, and three's too many.
When you think about Dannie's nasty remark in these terms, the Skipper got off pretty easy this time, didn't he? Things won't go so lightly after the newly mitered leviathan breaches at his consecration, leaving His Wreckage to sink and draw the SW Ohio cult into the whirling vortex.
Are you implying Bishop Sanborn is co-consecrating a new Bishop?Or is this group completely detached from MHT in Brooksville?
ReplyDeleteI was planning on attending holy mass at SGG until stumbling onto this blog.
No, Big Don won't be the co-consecrator. although he may be the consecrator.
DeleteI know that "The Clone" is Desposito, "The Rector" is Sanborn of course, but are Selway and Fliess any of the characters often mentioned in this blog or have they never been mentioned?
ReplyDeleteTill now i found out that Saavedra is "The Skipper"; i don't know any of these people personally.
the clone is desposito? I assumed it was Selway
DeleteYes.
DeleteWhat did you say yes to?
DeleteCould you please explain who your nicknames refer to?
DeleteThe clone = Selway
DeleteScut the Prefect = Despósito
Squirmin' Herman = Fliess
The Skipper = Saavedra
The Toady = Palma
Lurch = McGuire
Uneven Steven = McKenna
We think you know Checkie, Errroneous Antonious, Tony Baloney, the Checkmeister, "One Hand," Wee (Li'l) Dan, Dirtbag, the various "unhonorific" styles with "His," maggot, Big Don, the Donster, the rector.
Thank you.
DeleteYou're welcome.
DeleteWould they need a bishop for their new convent that was reported that they are building? Makes sense that they have one for each. Everyone knows who finances all of this; same financial backer when they were in Michigan. Why else would they pick up a seminary and move it down south for one priest?
ReplyDeleteWill they even need Cekada and Dolan after a new round of seminarians complete? If there is a new bishop and more Don-taught seminarians, why waste money on sending Cekada down there every month? From the looks of MHT's schedule, Don is keeping his own trained priests in Florida and growing missions there. I would guess they are squeezing Sgg out little by little. A new bishop and a new priest soon would mean both are replacements; would it not?
We would make the same guess. Time will tell.
DeleteI don't know any of these men either.Its fascinating to read the never ending soap opera of Ohio/Florida.I often wonder how Immaculate Heart of Mary Catholic chapel in Tampa Bay feel about these 2 groups?
ReplyDeleteNot too long ago, the cult leadership recruited an ignorant laywoman to try to encourage people to leave IHM. The effort was a failure. However, the good priests there don't get involved in the kind of nasty disputes that characterize the "clergy" of Tradaistan.
DeleteThere are other Latin Masses in Brooksvillle who end up getting the parishioners as they wake up and realize what wool has been pulled over their eyes. They try to stay out of it too, but it is obvious that Sanborn recruits out of these churches, then, when they become disenchanted with the sanborn group, they end up coming back to them.
DeleteWe have read that Sanborn moved down here for Selway's hand condition and because his father finances everything, but I wonder if they knew that there are 3 Latin churches near Brooksville and thought they could take parishioners from those parishes with their theater performances on Sundays, the "convent", "seminary"and parish "school"?
What Traditional Catholic doesn't want to be a part of the above promises?
Could the hand condition be made up so that they could start over with new parishioners with even more money? Or could the motive been to start over to get a compound with a church, seminary, convent, school, and the main contributors on the same property, more like a Jim Jones thing?
And speaking of possible theories, why are priests like the ones you discuss allowed to stay at the same parish as their family members? In the past, I thought priests rotated so that this kind of thing didn't happen?
That's utterly disgusting and arrogant to try and take parishioners from IHM in Tampa!!
DeleteI will be sure and attend holy Mass @IHM next time I visit central FL.
What's funny about that so called "hand condition" was that a priest, now a bishop, observed the same man dipping his hands into iced cold-water to serve champagne just before the whole crew left for Fl. Not too serious, huh?
DeleteIn the past, priests were not allowed to be too close to their family, for obvious reasons. But that was when the Church ruled. In Tradistan, the privileged rich call the shots.
Everybody in the Tampa-St. Pete area should attend IMH chapel. Those are real priests who love the faithful and don't get bogged down in nonsense.
I find it strange that Sanborn was in California, Michigan, and now Florida.
DeleteSelway was in California, Michigan, and now Florida.
Who is following who? And why are these men following each other? Does this normally happen in Trad churches?
From my understanding, a large group of inner circle families moved from Michigan to Florida, which infuriated those in Michigan who were unable to just pick up and leave.
Is this church a cult? When I read about these places (SGG and MHT) online, the word cult is used consistently. People moving to form their own compounds and following a man who keeps moving and starting new places. Are they moving to escape something? Are they starting new churches because they are stealing funds from the last place? What is going on?
Great question,I have wondered how & why they keep moving thousands of miles from each previous chapel.
DeleteThe Michigan families who did not want to abandon their homes and jobs to follow the Donster to FL, formed their own chapel. (Supposedly the move was occasioned by the Clone's intolerance of the cold, something that not everybody in the know believed.)
DeleteThe people's refusal to follow and the establishment of a new chapel infuriated Big Don, but apparently they've all kissed and made up now so it's all kumbaya in Tradistan. All that very bad blood seems to have dried up. But we'd be willing to bet that beneath all the superficial amity there's setting animosity — on both sides.
So, is this who is going to help Sanborn support Selway becoming a bishop? Neville is going to co-consecrate Selway as a way for the Michigan cult and Brooksville cult to become aligned again?
DeleteSelway always wanted to be a Dominican like Bishop McKenna, but Sanborn wanted him under his control. Neville was consecrated by McKenna, no? So, if He is co-consecrated by Neville, he has more connections to the Dominican line.
DeleteAnother thought is that if sanborn and Neville are together again, Sanborn would have more to financially gain because he would have more parishioners supporting his seminary. I'm intrigued to find out what deals have been made to get these men together again. We all can speculate what Sanborn has to gain, but what does Neville have to gain from this?
DeleteUnless, maybe Sanborn is planning a split from SGG and needs another alliance?
DeleteOur Thuc line priest (not ordained by Bishop's Dolan or Sanborn) sold the SSPV calendars for 2nd year in a row.I have to admit,they did a great job!
ReplyDeleteThey certainly do! The images are bright, sharp, and religiously edifying, whereas the amateur, often grainy snapshots in SGG's calendar are of such poor quality you can sometimes almost count the pixels: the blurriness of many of the dark and crowded shots is quite noticeable. It's also obvious that the purpose of these illustrations is to promote SGG as the center of Catholic life in Tradistani. They should have given them away, not sold them. (Our favorite is the one showing a dubious "priest" blessing cars in a parking lot: The asphalt and the utility poles in the background make for a stunning composition. Ha, ha, ha.)
DeleteIn the future, we'll devote a post to some more of the SGG calendar's editorial failures. We'll also point out a HUGE error of transcription: In the 12 captions for the images, there's only one phrase written in Latin, and yet they managed to spell one of the words wrong! (And the phrase has only three words to begin with.) What's worse is that the words come from a very famous hymn that's also significant in the history of music.
The Latin language is always the bane of the SGG cult masters, isn't it?. They need to steer clear of Latin altogether. Next year, Catholics should steer clear of the SGG product and buy the uplifting SSPV edition. Here's the address:
The Roman Catholic Calendar
2200 Smelter Avenue
Black Eagle, Montana 59414
(406) 452-9021
I think Catholics should steer clear of SGG and all their feline antics period.
DeleteYes, indeed, if only to avoid Cat Scratch Fever from those filthy strays.
DeleteAt first I couldn't understand why you were talking about an out of service bus in Rome. LOL!
ReplyDeleteAnother note on the stupid cat in Bishop's Corner that he prays on Bishop's lap? Is he trying to make himself out to be St.Francis?
ReplyDeleteNeeding more generosity $ for the ac/heater, whose shelf life will soon be up. First the organ, the microwave, and now the Ac/heater. Cekada is leaving for FL. Are priorities mixed up here? Could they not save money from traveling to spend on the ac/heater? Would it have been more prudent to fix the heater before buying a new organ? Do these men even think? And then, to make it look like Fr. L is only eating bread and salad. Are they not sharing their food or is that a plea for more money too.
"Let me include a plea for faithful obedience to the fasting laws of the true Church, real mortification notwithstanding." Really? Did he have obedience when he was in Mexico eating meat?
Please pray again for Fr. C's bad back (again continual prayers for the back but not for a man's soul who recently died.)
Do they recycle the Bishops corner? Please give us more money for fixing all the broken things, just want to let you know we aren't eating like we deserve (hint: bring us meals), feel sorry for us because of our physical ailments (yet, you parishioners offer your crosses up), Fr. C is on his weekly visit to the warm weather after spending the week on the Internet, and of course something about the cat.
What is the URL for the GoFund Me account for the man who recently passed away?
DeleteIf his Bishop won't even mention it,at least we can help in the comments section of a blog.
We've tried to look for the URL. Maybe the individual who mentioned it in the first place can give us the address.
DeleteAnon Fen 14 10:21 PM is spot-on right. Everything Dannie writes is a plea for more money. Let's see if Dannie travels travels abroad this year with so many repairs to the HVAC system needed. Let's also see if the Gerties lie down and roll over if he does decide to head south of the border or to Santa Fe for a luxury vacation.
This? https://www.gofundme.com/ggcvnuvg
DeleteYes, Anon 1:02am, that's it.
Delete"Did he have obedience when he was in Mexico eating meat?"
DeleteWhat a weird statement. Don't you know that the fast and abstinence for the most part are dispensed in Latin America? What disobedience did he commit?
Thank you for posting URL for GOFUND ME ACCT.I will pass it around much as possible.Bishop Dolan needs to post this in his bulletin!
Delete2:57, could you give some sources for the fasting laws in Latin America? I live in Central America and have no idea what the pre-V2 laws were over here.
DeleteWhat source do you have for saying that fasting laws were for the most part dispensed?
I still find it strange that nothing was mentioned of this in the 'Bishop's Corner'.
ReplyDeleteHe could have followed the abstinence and fast; he chose not to do so. He was visiting, but he isn't a Latin American. In the United States, we follow the fast and abstinence laws. Wouldn't it have set a better example to follow our laws and not come back and brag about how much meat he ate? That was appalling.
ReplyDeleteHe did follow the abstinence and fast. They did not oblige in that place and at that time. What he did was completely in compliance with the laws of fast and abstinence.
DeleteHere is a note in the MISAL DIARIO Y VESPERAL (Imprimi Potest, 1940; Imprimatur 1958; Copyright 1946). You will observes that the laws for fast & abstinence were different than in the USA, especially for Fridays outside of Lent and Advent and the fast days of Lent.
ReplyDeleteAyunos y abstinencias en la América Latina e Islas Filipinas
En virtud de Indulto Pontificio son de obligación solamente: Días de abstinencia sola, sin ayuno: las cuatro Vigilias: 1a de Navidad; 2a de Pentecostés; 3a de los Santos Apóstoles Pedro y Pablo; 4a de la Asunción.
Días de abstinencia con ayuno: el Miércoles de Ceniza y todos los Viernes de Cuaresma.
Días de ayuno sólo, sin abstinencia: todos los demás miércoles de Cuaresma, el Jueves Santo y el Viernes de Témporas en el Adviento.
Thank you, 6:23. Do you live in Latin America? What country is that missal from?
DeleteWow so not even abstinence for every single Friday of the year?
These rules really are lenient, compared to the ones of the U.S. What was the reason for such a relaxation?
"Days of fast and abstinence: Ash Wednesday and all Fridays of Lent."
DeleteYes, 9:59, I am from Spanish America. The MiISAL DIARIO is Gaspar Lefebvre DAILY MISSAL, and translated and adapted by Benedictine R. P. Germán Prado from Silos, Spain.
ReplyDeleteMany years ago the famous Bull of the Crusade, renewed many times, allowed the faithful of the Spanish dominions these privileges which are so different from the U S. A.
But I think that Dolan should not use the Bull to eat all that meat during Lent. México is secular and an anti-clerical state. The élite's who saw him in that restaurant had to laugh at all those priests gorging on meat, meat, and more meat when they ought to be more penitent. When I was yong, on Good Firday the butchers closed. Now everything is open. It is an offense to God. Dolan did not give a good example. He used our Indult to pig out.
I see. I live in Nicaragua though, not South America. Do you think the rules are still the same?
DeletePlease see the law was for "América Latina" and the Fillipines. Latin America is much bigger than South America, it includes México. The Bull applied to all the dominions of Spain, so I think the rules are the same, unless Nicaragua has special local rules. Ask at the cathedral what were the old rules.
ReplyDeleteYeah you're right, they're probably the same. The cathedral is around 50 min away from my house though, and it is abandoned and no longer in use, so the rules of my area and the capital were probably different, who knows. I'll see what I can do to find out anyway.
DeleteBut, just out of curiosity, you don't know the reason for the relaxation in Latin America? It's very considerable; fasting 3 times less in Lent than other countries.
Why is the Cathedral abandoned?
DeleteThe Novus Ordo happened, and there was also a revolution in the 80's.
DeleteThey decided to build a new modernist disgusting one after the revolution was over instead of fixing the old one.
Of course! The old one is a truly beautiful and Catholic Church which doesn't go with the new religion.
Google "antigua catedral de Managua" and see for yourself how good it is, then compare it with the new one.
If I remember correctly, it was because the tropical climate was considered, at that time, to be a hardship, being different from the temperate climate of Europe.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting side note to this discussion was the custom in Spain of "buying the bull [of the crusade]." For our Spanish-speaking readers, below is an excerpt from a 1950 newspaper article reporting the norms published by the patriarca-obispo de Madrid-Alcalá relative to the obligations of the faithful "según hayan adquirido o no la bula de la Cruzada y su indulto correspondiente.
ReplyDeleteLa norma señala que los diocesanos que no tomen la bula y su indulto, pecan mortalmente si no observan la vigilia todos los viernes del año, guardan el ayuno todos los días de Cuaresma y abstinencia con ayuno el miércoles de ceniza, todos los viernes y sábados de Cuaresma, los tres días de las cuatro témporas y las vigilias de Pentecostés, la Asunción, Todos los Santos, y Navidad.
Cuantos obtengan la bula de Cruzada y su indulto sólo tienen obligación de observar vigilia todos los viernes de Cuaresma, guardar ayuno el miércoles de ceniza y ayunar con abstinencia el Viernes Santo, la vigilia de la Asunción y la de la Navidad..."
One learned physician we know from South America opines that the inhabitants of the tropical dominions of Spain may have been excused from "buying the bull" owing to climate, but the bull was primarily a money-maker -- in Spain the parish priest sold them in the sacristy. (Wouldn't the cult masters love that!)
Perhaps one of our readers in Latin America may have more information to share.
Why would a tropical climate be an excuse to relax the Lenten fast? According to the Catholic encyclopedia, more food is allowed in COLDER rather than in WARMER climates, and supposedly the body burns more calories when it's cold.
DeleteWhatever the reason, the Bull of the Crusade granted the Indult to the dominions of Spain.
ReplyDeleteWhat we find interesting is that while Spaniards had to "buy the bull" yearly, apparently in the colonies there was no obligation to "buy the bull." At least, no well-educated Latin American whom we've contacted recalls even hearing of "buying the bull." They just took all the privileges for granted.
We'd really like to hear from someone who could tell us definitively whether "buying the bull" was ever a practice or if the obligation had been mitigated and for what reason.
In Spain, the bull was carried under a canopy in a solemn procession through the streets with soldiers and clergy. We spoke to an octogenarian from one of the formerly most conservative of Catholic countries in South America, and he couldn't remember hearing of the practice in his country.
Gather the ancients! Look for the 80-90 year olds who lived before Vatican 2.
DeleteThey ought to be the best way to find out about a lot of stuff.
Supposing their brain is still good!
How much did the Bull cost?
DeleteIn one account, perhaps from the 1950s, the price ran from 50 céntimos to 100 pesetas, depending on the economic circumstances of the buyer.
DeleteIn the years before 1966, when the practice was abandoned after the mitigations of Montini, the practice brought into Church coffers 96 million pesetas annually.
Let us put an interesting case:
DeleteIf the inhabitants of the former Spanish overseas dominions were excused somehow from "buying the bull" in order to enjoy the benefits of the indult conceded to Latin America and the Philippines, would Dannie as a mere gringo tourist in Mexico for about a week have also been able to benefit from that mitigated discipline?
Better still, shouldn't Dannie have just kept his big mouth shut instead of taunting the fasting Gerties back home about their soup while he and his "clerical" dining companions feasted on "copious quantities of meat"?
In addition, doesn't the word "copious" go against the whole spirit of the Lenten season, even if he and his chow-hound crew banqueted on a day on which flesh meat was allowed? We mean, even in the stricter USA, devouring copious quantities of meat during any day in Lent would be offensive in both the laity and the clergy.
Besides, shouldn't the "clergy" be models of prudence and moderation? Quite frankly, the image of slavering "priests" attacking with ravenous gusto mounds of beef, pork, and blood sausages at any time seems to go against nature.
Wasn't Dolan more than 60 years old when this happened anyway?
DeleteFasting is obligatory only until you're 59, so he wasn't obliged to fast anyway.
Still, he shouldn't have said what he said.
Yes, but the central complaint wasn't fasting. It was his bragging about the copious quantities of meat while reminding the Gerties of their miserable soup and his hollow piety of looking forward to his return to the American disciple.
DeleteIf he missed it so much, why didn't he keep it on his short vacation. Isn't Lent his favorite time of the year?
Here's exactly what in wrote (note in addition the reference to his ocean vacation -- another taunt for the Ohio-bound cultlings who have to sacrifice to keep him and the clown crew fed):
It was strange to be away for a Lenten Friday. I hope somebody made some soup. A week ago Friday I was trying to get all the way west to Baja California, near the Pacific Ocean....[In Mexico City] we were met by a Chilean priest, our old friend Fr. Mardones, and by Fr. Martin Gomez of Acapulco, now Dos Rios. We had dinner at an excellent Argentinean restaurant, consuming copious quantities of meat, as is the custom in these southern countries, even in Lent! We’re one of the few countries that do keep Lent and I’m happy to get back to it.
He didn't need to come back to the US to keep the spirit of Lent, and he could have eaten meat if it were not a day of abstinence. He could have kept his Lent there by avoiding a meat-extravaganza. In fact, his observation "even in Lent" proves he knew how far this experience was from the US practice.
If you didn't read our post of April 6, 2014,, you should know that an Argentine churrasqueríais a meat-lover's paradise. You don't go in without a BIG appetite. It's a fabulous, over-the-top experience.
It was hardly appropriate in anti-clerical Mexico for priests to go there during Lent because the menu is a byword for excess so counter to the spirit of Lent. An experience like that is for Shrove Tuesday or Holy Saturday evening, perhaps.
The fact that he reported this eating frenzy in his "Bishop's (?) Corner" says something about his arrogance.
I didn't go back and read the corner.
DeleteThe whole thing was on a Friday then? I had thought it happened any day but Wednesday or Friday.
Abstinence is for life, so how can it be a custom to eat meat on Fridays? The Latin American regulations posted above say that there is abstinence every Friday in Lent.
This makes no sense.
There's no evidence that it took place on a Friday, and, to be fair, we'll say it didn't. We'll even say this carnivore's pig out occurred on a day when meat wasn't forbidden there or in the US.
DeleteOur point is that this display of eating excess was scandalous and in violation of the spirit of Lent.
I'm not fasting very well this Lent.My recent experience with an emotionally crippled megalomaniac vagrant priest has jaded me.Sometimes I wonder if we "Independents" are receiving our punishment from our Blessed Lord by creating our own church?
ReplyDeleteI am open to being wrong,not saying I'm correct.
We may all have a big debt to pay for our failure to supervise these "priests" from the outset.
DeleteMaybe we can lessen our punishment by wresting control from them and putting things right.
We all need to start referring to what these places really are: CULTS. These men are CULT leaders. The parishioners are brainwashed. It won't get any better until people use the blunt words to describe the place, the leaders, and the fact that the parishioners are nothing more than brainwashed cult followers being used for their money and to put these men in their power positions. The men you have talked about here are full of pride and would never commit an act of humility.
DeleteWe couldn't have said it better ourselves. Thanks.
DeleteReply to PL: We can "put things right" by "wresting control"? Why don't you go wrest control from the N.O. and put things right there if you are able to do that (think you're needed more there)?
ReplyDeleteIt is a protestant idea that 'lay people' should be in control of priests (also it is considered foolish to be your own defense attorney, doctor, etc. so not sure why you think can be your own spiritual director) - might as well have the priests bowing down to King Henry VIII (or Putin)! Why do you think anyone would want to be under your thumb more than Dolan/Sanborn/Cekada? You seem to suffer from many of their same issues (including pride and arrogance) which may be why you were sucked into their 'cult' for so long.
Reply to Anon: I don't know about you, but I haven't "started my own church". If you took in an emotionally crippled megalomaniac vagrant and attempted to start your own church don't think God is punishing you so much as you are punishing yourself. Seriously, if you think VC2 is the real church--go back: they are not fasting at all! Frannie is having a party w/adulterers (he likes 2nd loves best), recommending birth control, and opening Lourdes to sodomites, adulterers and fornicators--to 'celebrate' Our Lady's appearances to Bernadette. Lent is no different than Mardi Gras!
If you want to improve your fast life recommend you start thinking about Jesus Christ's passion and agony or how thirsty you will be in hell, how many sins you've committed that should send you to hell, how many sins of sexual immorality, immodesty, abortion, euthanasia that are happening each day etc. [and stop reading these blogs til you get your perspective back].
Wow...someone hit someone's button!
ReplyDelete"If you want to improve your fast life recommend you start thinking about Jesus Christ's passion and agony or how thirsty you will be in hell, how many sins you've committed that should send you to hell,"
ReplyDeleteDid you just condemn someone to hell? I didn't know anyone could do that except Our Lord.
Our Lord shows St. Teresa the place which she had by her sins deserved in hell. The Torments there. She narrates how it pleased God to put her in spirit in that place of hell she had deserved by her sins. She tells a little compared with what there was besides of what she saw there.
DeleteSome considerable time after our Lord had bestowed upon me the graces I have been describing, and others also of a higher nature, I was one day in prayer when I found myself in a moment, without knowing how, plunged apparently into hell. I understood that it was our Lord's will I should see the place which the devils kept in readiness for me, and which I had deserved by my sins (1). It was but a moment, but it seems to me impossible I should ever forget it, even if I were to live many years.
... There is no exaggeration in what I am saying....But as to what I then felt, I do not know where to begin, if I were to describe it; it is utterly inexplicable. I felt a fire in my soul. I cannot see how it is possible to describe it. My bodily sufferings were unendurable. I have undergone most painful sufferings in this life, and, as the physicians say, the greatest that can be borne, such as the contraction of my sinews when I was paralyzed, without speaking of others of different kinds, yea, even those of which I have also spoken, inflicted on me by Satan; yet all these were as nothing in comparison with what I felt then, especially when I saw that there would be no intermission, nor any end to them.
These sufferings were nothing in comparison with the anguish of my soul, ... I cannot describe that inward fire or that despair, surpassing all torments and all pain. I did not see who it was that tormented me, but I felt myself on fire, and torn to pieces, as it seemed to me; and, I repeat it, this inward fire and despair are the greatest torments of all.
... I was so terrified by that vision,--and that terror is on me even now while I am writing,--that though it took place nearly six years ago, the natural warmth of my body is chilled by fear even now when I think of it. And so, amid all the pain and suffering which I may have had to bear, I remember no time in which I do not think that all we have to suffer in this world is as nothing. It seems to me that we complain without reason. I repeat it, this vision was one of the grandest mercies of our Lord. It has been to me of the greatest service, because it has destroyed my fear of trouble and of the contradiction of the world, and because it has made me strong enough to bear up against them, and to give thanks to our Lord, who has been my Deliverer, as it now seems to me, from such fearful and everlasting pains.
Ever since that time, as I was saying, everything seems endurable in comparison with one instant of suffering such as those I had then to bear in hell. I am filled with fear when I see that, after frequently reading books which describe in some manner the pains of hell, I was not afraid of them, nor made any account of them. Where was I? How could I possibly take any pleasure in those things which led me directly to so dreadful a place? Blessed for ever be Thou, O my God!
http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/St.%20Teresa%20of%20Avila%20combat%20with%20Satan.html
"I don't know about you, but I haven't "started my own church".
ReplyDeleteDoes this indicate who is writing this response?
"and stop reading these blogs until you get your perspective back"
Are you not reading these same blogs? Hypocritical, I would say.
Thank you I agree,pure typical traddie hypocrisy!
DeleteSounds like the condescending,irrational,
insulting,egotistical,hypocrite,we've been dealing with.If this "priest" had proper supervision,the Chancery would send him to a monastery for therapy.
Feb. 18 8:05 PM
ReplyDeleteThese traddie "priests" have no legal authority in the Church. The organizations they control are not by any means ecclesiastical. As merely civil corporations, they should be under the control of a board of trustees to keep them focused and govern the organization. Under a lay governance, no one is under anyone's thumb. Far from it. Boards prevent such abuses of power. Additionally, lay boards do not usurp the spiritual authority of priests. Indeed, they assure that the priests focus on the spiritual welfare of the laity. For instance, if SGG were governed by a lay board, Checkie would be forced to stop wasting his time on YouTube and get back to the job he was hired for -- the cure of souls.
If you mean no canonical status in VC2 church (neither do you have any by the way), that doesn't mean no ecclesiastical authority. You say: "no one is under anyone's thumb. Far from it." but then "Checkie would be forced to stop wasting his time on YouTube and get back to the job he was hired for" Indicating not only is he under your thumb, but he is a hireling, which Jesus Christ himself condemned as the opposite of the Good Shepherd.
DeleteP.S. PL seems to want to put Cekada & Dolan's parish out of business due to they shouldn't be caring for children (poor ex to the principal's sons taking them swimming, animal slaughtering videos,etc.; also seem to show poor judgment/scholarship on Thuc bishop line, walking off in snit & taking down 2 other priests w/him, flippantly cruel on Schiavo, needs new organ toys, expensive vacations in NM resorts, etc.)--meanwhile you seem to indicate he can cure (care?) souls (but not over YouTube). Which is it?
Regardless if these fellas aren't licit,the Thuc line is valid.
DeleteSeems to me all the bishops running around in "tradistan" stem from this line. Same w/the "vagrants". The fruit is the proof of the tree and the fruit is rotten--No?
DeleteThe fruit is more than rotten -- it's poisonous.
DeleteThe Thuc line is valid according to Catholic Canon Law.
DeleteThe sins of the consecrator are not passed onto the candidate.
Secondly,not every Thuc priest or bishop is bad,rotten,and evil.
Third,every era,of every diocese,has had rotten apples.Does this make their bishop's invalid?No.
Fourth,I respect the SSPV and like what I've heard from them.
"Under a lay governance, no one is under anyone's thumb. Far from it. Boards prevent such abuses of power."
DeleteThis is ridiculous. Everyone in the church is under the thumb of the lay board. How are they not, if the lay board runs the church?
I would much rather be under a priest than a lay board. Before you go ballistic, consider:
A priest's entire life work is to work for his people, to the point that his entire livelihood depends on keeping his people happy. If his people aren't happy, they'll leave. In that sense, the priest is beholden to the people in the parish. Not only does the priest have a strong incentive to run the church well, but his entire existence almost completely depends on it.
It's entirely the opposite in the case of the members of a lay board. They already have their lives taken care of. They have their families and their livelihoods, their social circles and their whole life outside the parish. They will not lose one penny of their own money if the church even closes down, nor would their personal life be affected in any measurable degree. In short, they have no real incentive the run the church properly or keep anyone happy.
Add to this the fact that, in general, most people who will try to get onto lay boards are bored, unfulfilled busybodies, usually with some void in their personal life that they're trying to fill by running the church, or some axe to grind, or some petty desire for power over others, and the problem is compounded tenfold. These are the kinds of people who will be bored or even malicious enough to wage petty personal vendettas against people in the congregation who don't give them the respect they feel they deserve, that they're trying to find by being on the "board of trustees". They can very easily either expel people from the parish whom they don't like, or persecute them to the point that they leave of their own accord. And the lay board member will suffer no hardship when the person leaves, because his soul (as he believes) doesn't depend on saving the soul of that person whom he dislikes, unlike the priest's soul, nor does the lay board member lose a single red penny of his own finances if that person stops putting money in the basket because he's been driven out of the parish.
A truly frightening scenario, and one that doesn't exist where a priest is in charge. A priest will generally bend over backwards to accommodate people, for the simple reason that he believes he will answer to God for all the souls in the parish (which the lay person obviously doesn't believe), and also because the priest will not have enough food to eat if too many people leave.
So all these unhappy, unstable people, like the author of this blog, who think it's really all that bad under a priest, who is under such strong incentives to give them what they want, should think long and hard about turning that power over to a group of petty control freaks who couldn't care less what happens to their souls.
"The Thuc line is valid according to Catholic Canon Law." If Checkie's the lawyer, sure - even theft, lies, & destruction are valid!
DeleteAs he only had two chairs, the Archbishop sat on his bed and Father Barbara sat opposite him. The room was so small that Father Barthe had to place his chair behind the Archbishop.
This is the setting for the consecration of the founder of the Thuc Line bishops.
A cramped "dirty" bedroom, five cats,
a corner table ...and a telephone.
In 1981 France was not under persecution.
Why were the Episcopal Consecrations not performed even in a hotel room?
The Mass of the Consecration of a Bishop
was twice celebrated up against the window.
Ask yourself: Is this the Sacred Action that was necessary for the continuation of the Priesthood and of Apostolic Succession
in the Church?
http://papastronsay.blogspot.com/2011/02/truly-tragic-episcopal-consecrations-of.html
What's up with all these priests with cats? Are these men obsessed with cats?
DeleteThuc line is no different from the other vagrant lines.They all received holy orders outside the "official church",which is in complete defunct Jewish pagan heresy at the moment. (Yes even the "amazing glorious" SSPX received orders in same way,even though it looked more official)
Delete"The monks of Papastronsay" accept and believe in the anti-christ documents of Lumen Gentium & Nostra Ataete.
DeleteGood luck embracing your antichrist monks who deny the divinity of Jesus Christ and who encourage the Jews (who had a hand in killing Jesus Christ) to wait for their saivor.Whew,they're the last people I would ask about catholic holy order's. HAHA WOW!
What's that got to do w/their info on the Thuch 'consecrations'? Can you disprove the evidence which like all the Thuc line 'consecrations' smack of simony (i.e. selling offices for money). In Thuc's case could also be senility/ mental impairment.
DeleteDid you ever meet or talk with Bishop Thuc?
DeleteDid Fr.Jenkins or Bishop Kelly?
You're using evidence from Papastronsay and they accept the anti-christ V2 documents.(that's why it's relevant)
Did the Papastronsay monks ever talk with let alone know Bishop Thuc on a personal level?
If not,where did you receive your evidence of his mental state?
The valid line of holy order's was under persecution in France circa 1981.
DeleteThe anti-christ novus ordo has stopped apostolic succession 1968/1969.
Anonymous 6:59 AM
DeleteGood point!!
Lay boards are better than the other options, but they are still troublesome. From what I have seen, over time, disagreements mount over a myriad of issues, the laypeople fight, and the chapel falls apart.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree, that the laity should control their own properties if they do exist, I still think we would have been better off without any vagrant bishops/priests.
But if, as some have suggested on these pages, these vagi are somehow necessary, then these imperfect lay boards, with all their fractiousness, are the only option available to those Catholics who want to "have church" and at the same time preserve their investment, both financial and spiritual.
ReplyDeleteIt's a terrible bargain. No wonder so many are opting for home alone.
I agree, it is a terrible bargain. I think one thing that is missed is that if we no longer deal with the vagrants, that does not mean we must be home alone.
ReplyDeleteWe can always meet other Catholics to pray, even if only online in this 21st century, to talk about our Faith, and support each other. We don't need unapproved mass centers to practice our Faith.
If the illicit ordinations of priests and consecrations of bishops never happened, I think this spirit of communal action on the part of the laity would have organically developed to pray and support one another in the absence of our Shepherds and to wait together for their return.
I didn't take in any priest.We simply went to a chapel and this so called priest they hired is an arrogant,condescending,insulting,nutcase.
DeleteI don't claim to have any answers.Its a mess and the longer it goes on the worse our situation (cleric and parishoner) becomes.
By the way,$50 says this so called priest at the chapel in question,wouldn't have ever been ordained pre-1965.He is an unfit lunatic.
We wouldn't take that bet since we think that the overwhelming majority of these traddie "priests" could never even have made it into a pre-1965 seminary, let alone survive there until ordination.
DeleteBy any chance, is this unfit disgrace you have in some way associated with one of the "bishop"-led cults?
No he is not involved with any of the groups you mention.
DeleteSecondly,speaking as a parishioner of traditional chapels,it's come to my attention the traditional movement is protestant.
Every group (even the "glorious" SSPX) disagree on every issue,use different missals,different holy week's,etc..some don't even recognize each other as Catholic.This is the furthest idea from one,holy,catholic,and apostolic!!
A very perceptive observation. Traddieland resembles the same smorgasbord of practices you find among the various kinds of High Church Episcopalians.
DeleteGene,you raise an excellent point!
ReplyDeleteDo we deserve the Sacraments?These self appointed "clergy" have zero approval from the Holy See.
These words from you have me thinking in a way I hadn't thought of before.
We agree with Feb 19 4:10 PM that Gene has raised a significant point for all "independent" traditional Catholics to consider.
DeleteThe Nagasaki Japanese were able to live without clergy for centuries. Why can't we? It's obvious that we were mistaken to allow the illicit "clergy" we have to enter into our spiritual lives.
Anon Feb. 19 10:43AM - In what region of the country is this priest you describe? He sounds like one I know but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a nutcase.
ReplyDeleteIf you knew him,you'd describe him as a mentally unfit lunatic.In all due respect,you don't know him,I can tell.
DeleteIt's a shame,he has potential to be a good 'priest'.
After Gene's reply today,I seriously wonder if this man is indeed a priest?
The outward signs of the priestly charism are conspicuously missing in the great majority of these sede "priests." For that reason, we, too, have wondered whether these clowns possess valid sacerdotal orders, or, if they do, whether their unlawful orders are odious in the eyes of God.
ReplyDeleteYou're not alone in suffering under a whack-job "priest." One of the Readers once attended a chapel where you never knew if the "priest," a shockingly uneducated loser whose piety bordered on gross superstition, was going to flip his wig. Our colleague and his family got out and are happy at home, with occasional visits to independent chapels where the priests have their heads screwed on correctly.
What outward sign of the priestly charism are you talking about? The priestly character inheres in the soul, not outwardly.
DeleteAnd if you're saying that what you consider their bad behavior is a sign they're not really priests, oh man do I have some really bad news for you ...
I never said their bahaivor decides if they're a priest,never!!!!
Delete