Saturday, October 14, 2017

YAG ORDER


Getting money is like digging with a needle; spending it is like water soaking into sand. Japanese Proverb

We like to think the obscure, easy-to-overlook, mundane details tracing the arc of sleazy cult life are more telling than a written confession. Take, for instance, the $GG calendar item for Sunday, October 15, 2017. There, sandwiched between parentheses, we learn the "2017 YAGers" will offer the stipend for the 9:00 A.M. High Mass.

On the surface, it appears an unremarkable clerical detail. And, yes, it has a ring of authenticity: If the soul for whom the Mass is to be said had attended the 2017 YAG, it wouldn't be impossible to believe that fellow participants ordered it up from the unused registration moneys. That's surely the impression anyone might draw from the notice, if she or he had bothered to think about it — or even paid attention

But it's not the only explanation.

A little thought will make our suspicions clearer. We see two plausible* scenarios behind the calendar entry:
A. One of the Gertie YAG attendees, either upon his or her own initiative or at the self-interested prompting of a cult master, shares with erstwhile get-together companions the sad news of the tragic death and polls them about offering a Mass from the unspent fees they wasted for their book-burning weekend last summer. YAGGIES, who got the message and who bothered to respond, give their express approval. Therefore, the Gertling informs the cult to make some of the funds in the YAG account liquid for the celebrant's spending pleasure. ** 
B. The cult masters, in need of Mass stipends, decide independently that surplus YAG registration fees should be applied for a Mass for the repose of the young man's soul and the comfort of his family. After all, the money's theirs now and should be used for necessities.
Laying aside (but never forgetting) the important question of the validity of $GG "clergy's" holy orders, in either scenario a Mass is said for the departed. That's objectively good, so the question is:
Why does PL give a hoot about who requested the Mass? 
Why don't we just let it go? Besides, it may well be nigh impossible for outsiders (and even rabid Gertie loyalists) to learn which is the more correct explanation.

Well, we've got three reasons for our inquiry:
First, scenario A is just a trifle too complicated, while B is simplicity itself. (But out of fairness, until we confirm B, we won't dismiss A. In addition, our faith in mankind's basic decency is so strong, we'll presume A until there's no doubt about B.) 
Second, we've always argued that in justice the unspent funds from the 2017 YAG registration fees should have been returned to the "2017 YAGers" and not squirreled away in $GG's bank account for uses other than the 2017 lonely-hearts misadventure. (Don't forget, they were originally baited with a Golden Corral buffet before the bowling-alley soggy pizza switch.)
Third, we've been observing lately how Mass stipends are paid by the Rosary Confraternity, the Alter Christus fund, or some other cult-sponsored-and-controlled moral person rather than by named human beings.

We surmise this absence of individuals' Mass intentions might be another sign of rapidly diminishing enthusiasm for the cult, a statistical oracle of its last days. Most independent priests we know are booked solid with Mass requests for months into the future. In fact, some are so overwhelmed that they're obliged to binate occasionally on weekdays. Common sense argues that $GG should be experiencing the same high demand from the faithful, so stipends shouldn't have to be paid from the accounts of cult enterprises.

For the time being, we can only wait, watch, and hope the end comes soon. (Tales of malaise in all the bishop-led trad cults abound.) Nevertheless, if only out of intellectual curiosity, we'd like to know whether scenario A, or something like it, is true. Accordingly, we're asking "2017 YAGers" to confirm whether they were asked either (1) to approve spending surplus 2017 registration fees to put money in "priests'" pockets or (2) whether they contributed afresh for the Mass. They can either e-mail us (pistrinalit@gmail.com) or comment anonymously. (We'll keep all email names confidential.)


* Some might argue there's a third scenario where some non-$GG YAGGIES learn of the tragedy, ask for contributions, and send in a stipend on their own. In our mind, that doesn't sound plausible.

** PL wonders about the exact amount of the stipend. We recall from our pre-Vatican II youth in upper-middle-class parishes that a High Mass stipend was twice the amount of a Low Mass stipend. Perhaps someone can tell us whether $GG charges more for a High Mass and what that amount is.

49 comments:

  1. Why would you wonder about the exact amount of the stipend? Do you know or not whether Church law demands double for High Mass, or would you actually criticize a priest for taking less of a stipend for a High Mass than could be asked for?

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  2. As we said, we recall from our pre-V II youth that a High Mass stipend was double that of a Low Mass. We were just trying to get some insight into the scheduling decision.

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  3. Frankly I think it's awful that they charge for a Mass to be said. Call it by any nice word you want, but it's still a fee. Talk about sacrilege...

    Can someone here tell me what happened to CMRI's Fr. Gabriel? What did he do that caused his superiors to muzzle him?

    Connie

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    1. Mass stipends are only lawful in the Church, to which the cult masters do not belong. Moreover, In the SV, there's no one to suspend the sedes for any violations relative to canons 827, 828, or 840.1. Worst of all, in the SV there's no punishment for the simulation of priestly powers by one who has not been raised to the order of the priesthood.

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    2. Connie,he is in Ohio.Believe he was not happy with what he saw happening at the Mount.

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    3. What I would like to know is what happened to Fr Luis Jurado ? He was suddenly removed from his post in Colorado and completely disappeared from any CMRI listing just before Christmas last year. He was Pivvy's first priestly ordination - Jurado had been ordained a deacon by Archbishop Lefebvre before the big Sede blowout of 1991 in Argentina. Jurado shows up in a photograph of July's "priestly" meeting in Omaha July this year but he isn't listed as being posted anywhere in the US - any info ?

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    4. Anonymous, thank you. He doesn't write any articles anymore, nor are his sermons published, nor does he ever speak anymore at the Fatima Conference. He is really an excellent priest. Do you know why he is keeping such silence?

      Connie

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    5. Fr. Gabriel being muzzled? I hardly know him, but he seemed a very soft-spoken man, I'm surprised he would cause some kind of ruckus.

      I also agree with your sentiments about Fr. Jurado. He did strike me as the only one within the CMRI with a true priestly charisma. His willingness to celebrate High Masses when he visited were a rare treat.
      I could never understand, though, how he could stand staying with these folks.

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    6. We (Fr. Jurado and I) had quite a frank discussion about CMRI many years ago and privately he had many misgivings about CMRI- for a while he returned to Argentina to work with Fr. Pio Espina but for some reason drifted back to the US- Anyway he's disappeared from view again. I'm sure it was his Lefebvrian training that made the difference.

      I recall during a priests' meeting watching one of the CMRI priests handing out sheets of paper and looking quite officious, he turned to me and said in Spanish: "Who do these guys think they are? You'd think they thought they were the SSPX and that they're saving the Church!" I almost exploded with laughter since that was exactly what I was thinking.

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  4. Could anyone please tell me what the heck is with the three ring circus Requiem Mass that is said at SGG. Never have I ever heard or witnessed any Church or Cathedral for that matter, doing this under Vatican One.Can you imagine what that must cost the suckers who believe they are getting three for the price of one? Ouch, I can hear the celestial choir chanting, " Show me the money" $$$$$$$$$, or " Slip out the back Jack..."

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    1. We agree: the triple play is just dreadful.

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  5. I asked one of the YAGers, and PL is all wet (besides violating charity in not thinking the best of others). The priests had nothing more to do with this than to be contacted by a representative of the YAGers to have a Mass said, and then offered the Mass.

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    1. If you read our post, we DID think the best about others, which is why we favored A, so you're the one who's all wet.

      BTW, we have obtained a copy of the letter sent out. It informs the YAGGIES of the Mass intention, but there's no poll asking for approval. Moreover, there's no affirmation that the letter came spontaneously from the Gertie author, the sister of a MHT completer.

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    2. You still don't get the concept behind basic charity. It's not that you haven't ruled out the best, or think that the best is more likely. Charity BELIEVES the best, heartily....without suspicion of what is bad. You blatant violate this basic Catholic teaching of charity ALL OVER your PL, week after week, and give a terrible example to the public.

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    3. No, you don't get the fact that one is not obligated to believe the best when the overwhelming evidence tells him to expect the worst.

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    4. That's really creepy how you have twisted Catholic moral teaching. There is no such principle as an open-ended 'overwhelming evidence in some regards equals expect the worst in any regard'. That is what's called inductive reasoning, and it is a fallacy. Sure, if you take an individual who has already been known publicly to do something wrong over and over again without repentance, you can expect THAT individual to do it again.

      Now we have a layman with no such reputation for wrong-doing representing some loose gathering of young adults, writes to the group to say that a stipend from the funds will be used to help a soul in purgatory, and hearing no objections, uses about 1 dollar from each person for the stipend. As if any one would write back and say, "hey, I know I freely donated to the group, but please don't use my dollar from the funds to help a soul in purgatory". Then the coordinator would say, "granted", and then used 2 of his own dollars from the funds instead! Back to square one. You need help.

      You blog about this, while you overturn Catholic moral principle by recommending Catholics associate religiously with the heretical Novus Ordo eastern rite clergy!

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    5. No, you need help.

      The 2017 YAGGIES surrendered their money in good faith for the weekend. Every red cent should have been used for that endeavor, and if anything remained, it should have been returned after the "bait 'n' switch" to the attendees. That's both moral and charitable.

      BTW, according to Scholastic philosophy, induction if the "legitimate derivation of universal laws from individual cases," and it is by no means a fallacy to propose "an argument in which from our experience of particular instances we draw inferences concerning the universal subject or type to which these instances belong" (Wuellner, S.J.)

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    6. Everyone understands that when the laity sponsors a one-time event and attaches a fee, that the fee goes for the event and anything left over is for the effort and work of the coordinators. Everyone knows that but you. There is no such thing as a lay sponsored event where the remaining funds are later divided equally among the attendees.

      BTW, what you say about induction doesn't apply to other people where it clashes with charity. There is no such thing in the annals of the Saints, or spiritual books, that proposes what you do, but quite the opposite. No spiritual writer has ever said, that if you think a person does many wrong things, that you should ridicule them publicly about anything else on the notion that they might be wrong. You are inventing your own moral code, and it is not Catholic.

      So far each time it is brought up about you promoting the mortal sin of religiously associating with Novus Ordo eastern rite clergy, you say nothing. You are merely embracing mortal sin, and your PL work here is to bring as many people with you, away from the only men who have retained the true faith.

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    7. That is by no means the universal understanding of conference attendees. In fact, the normal understanding is that the fees will be used to cover the costs of the event, and that includes administrative fees. The ordinary expectation is that conference planners have done their due diligence, and if perchance money is left over after all expenses, a rebate is true expectation.

      We're inventing nothing. Moral theology teaches that it is permissible to expose those who present a danger to the community.

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    8. Once again you say nothing about your pushing Catholics to associate with heretics and harm their faith!

      If any of your readers were born yesterday, they will swallow what you say about Catholic expectation. This has been going on for a long time. Interesting; I even see that you essentially agree with me without intending it: You mention "administrative fees", and I already said, "anything left over is for the effort and work of the coordinators"

      That's the same thing, and everyone expects that.

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    9. You're delusional if you think we agreed with you. In competent conference planning, admin fees are loaded up front. Anything left over is returned to the registrants.

      We point out that Catholics involved with the sede bishop-led cults are the ones who are associating with non-Catholics.

      The Reader-in-Chief, who's just returned from vacation has determined that this thread in at an end. According to him, anyone who doesn't know that "induction if the legitimate inference of universal laws from individual cases" and hence is not fallacious doesn't merit a response.

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  6. The Reader.Do you know what has happened to "Father" Gilchrist in Australia.From info we have he must have no one left except two or three suckers.

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    1. No, we don't. We've been in correspondence with a number of people about G and no one seems to know. From everything we've heard, as you say he's got to down to a very few. One report thought he was in Perth.

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    2. Anonymous October 18, at 12:44 AM.

      Your language leaves a lot to be desired.

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    3. What's wrong with 12:44's language? It's perfectly accurate, and is by no means offensive when it means "a person easily cheated or deceived."

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    4. Ah 12:44, you go for numbers. That is democracy, right? When all the fools are on the same side.

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    5. We'd prefer to think in terms of statistics: the grandstand knows the winner.

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    6. Thanks Reader 3.42 PM "a person easily cheated or deceived", and they did just that at VC2.

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  7. We agree Reader.There is nothing at all wrong with Anonymous Oct 18,12:44 comments.

    There must be something VERY wrong for a "priest" to lose good people not only in Australia now but also New Zealand and Fiji.

    Gilchrist has been a concern to the SSPX Down Under for some time and they took over most of his former followers in New Zealand and Fiji.As one SSPX priest told us,Gilchrist is a scandal and his behaviour is evil.

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  8. READER

    We are so happy that Gilchrist has been given the boot here in Melbourne.You don't agree with Sinburn but look at the progress of his priest's work here in a few weeks .Gilchrist was taking funds of folk here to go over to the States almost twice a year to bum round.As a friend over there said why is he going over here when People need the Mass and Sacraments Down Under.

    We do like your website.Prayers for your work of exposing these scumbag "clerics"

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    1. We would agree: anything is better than G.

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    2. This reminds me of a dear lady just outside Paris who was fairly wealthy. Somehow she hooked up with one of the greatest showmen the Thuc line ever produced in France. She wanted to donate a large amount of money to build a retreat house so the showman had one of his priests pump her for info. Then he told her he was thinking of building a retreat house. Now get this - he claims to see Our Blessed Lady every month and is a "mystic" - so it was easy for her to part with her money. Unfortunately the building only got as far as the third brick - I mean like a Roman or Grecian ruin - the complete outline of the building but only 3 bricks high. Boy was that a swindle. When she told me that over dinner I had to contain myself from laughing because he did that kind of thing all the time - he had millions in the bank and still does. He's in the States now pulling the same scams.

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    3. If only people would wise up to these sede-racaiile! A pity. The only answer is to STARVE THE BEAST.

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  9. Recently, Father Francis Miller, OFM announced to his parishioners in Pensacola Florida that would begin working with Bishop Dolan. This was understandably upsetting to some. Those attending Mass in Pensacola were further upset when Father James Kosek out of Illinois showed up to say his Bishop from Mexico told him to say Mass in Pensacola. When asked where he studied for the priesthood Father Kosek becomes very irritated and snaps people are doubting his validity. He further states his studies were with the late Oliver Oravec. Those giving via Skype. Does anyone have further information on this? And, is there a safe group in Florida for my family to attend Mass. I know to avoid the Swamp.

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    1. Go to Our Lady of Fatima Church at Spring Hill.Bishop Fulham is good and has a concern for Souls.

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    2. 1) It was always my understanding that Miller was working with Dolan. There was a photo of a recent priest's retreat on SGG website for weeks showing him in attendance.

      2) I've always been puzzled about this OFM business. I thought he began with Syon Abbey which claimed to be OSB under Fr. Nugent. Somehow he went to Vezelis but isn't part of their community - does one just put on a habit and claim whatever initials one wants ?

      3) Oravec was ordained a priest by Felix Maria Davidek. The latter ordained women as priests and was declared mentally incompetent by Card. Ratzinger after the fall of the Iron Curtain - the Vatican does not accept the validity of that lineage at all. Source 1: http://www.womenpriests.org/called/davidek.asp Source 2:http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/08/world/czech-hierarchy-bars-some-priests.html

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    3. All of this is simple ignorant traddies "playing Church." They have no right to use the post-nominal initials of the canonically established orders.

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    4. Check out the Eastern Rite options in Florida.

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    5. Thank You for the replies. And again for stating the truth about Felix Davidek. I read the book by Ludmilia Javorova. She is one of the sad victims of these Sede Vultures.

      She met this mad man Davidek while still quiet young. He fed on her school girl infatuation with an older man, thought by those around her to be a cut above the rest, show interest.

      He worked her unmercifully. When he started his "Seminary",the clandestine meetings were always under the protection of the dark of night. Davidek would come into the room and ramble disjointedly for hours then vanish. Leaving Ludmila to straighten the mess and herself teach the candidates. They held in such awe when really it should have been seen by someone that His mind was fractured. Yet another self appointed Messiah.

      Oravec would have been ordained in 1968. Ludmila " ordained" in 1970. There is simply no way Oravec was not "taught" by Ludmila.

      When Oravec finally left his country he went to Rome. And he was there to try and convince Rome that Davidek was sane to no avail.

      Oravec met his prodigy, James Kosek, during a visit with the C.M.R.I. Not sure of the exact time but it was Brother Tarcisus not yet Bishop Piv.

      Kosek had been sent there by, THE EXORCIST, Bishop McKenna as Kosek had been ordained by an Old Catholic.

      Kosek left C.M.R.I. and later was called to Canada had his ordination corrected by Oravec.

      Now, Bishop Jose Rodriguez of Mexico,(the very hard to contact) is who Kosek considers his Bishop.

      I have rambled to long myself. Suffice it say the carnage done to souls by this insane clown posse runs deep.

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  10. Anonymous @ 9:44 pm
    It's obvious that you are not a member of the sede trad group in Melbourne.

    Why are you entertaining this substanceless enemy of Fr. Gilchrist, READER?

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    1. There are too many concerns to regard the critique as substanceless.

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    2. Further to 10:42 AM.

      Enemy of Fr Gilchrist alright. For the record, the Priest cut short his visit to NZ to get back to Melbourne for the funeral in September. The Priest visited Fiji in June. As for visiting the States almost twice a year - provide concrete evidence please.

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    3. Reader 7:14 PM.

      There are too many sick and disturbed individuals, one in particular is Dental Floss [not real name] who is better off returning to his Anglican roots.

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    4. A Checkidee piped up - and glad you arrived at the general conclusion that most patrons of this site have already made - there are too many sick and disturbed individuals flooding out of the "seminaries" and hanging around the cult centers. It's heartening that you can partially see the problem - then try removing the beam from your own eye.

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    5. The comment referenced lay people, the likes of Dental Floss, whereas you [5:38 PM] are for those flooding out of the "seminaries".

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    6. Anonymous @ 11:32 pm
      I object to you calling me 'Dental Floss'! And there are no sour grapes over being corrected by the priest. I may not be part of the group but that doesn't mean that ALL my information is mere hearsay. A lot of it is pretty good quality hearsay and there is more to come. Don't you worry about that. Thankyou Reader for giving me the opportunity on this site.

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    7. Your comment 11:32 AM is mixed up. Please identify first who is saying what to who? What makes you think that it is you who has been called "Dental Floss"? What person has been corrected by the priest?

      The Reader gives to all the same opportunity.

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  11. Anon at 3.54 PM
    To clarify. I'm not "Dental Floss", and I know you're not part of the Melbourne group. For if you were you'd immediately understand DF's (Dental Floss') message. I'll put this together for the Reader. He'll get the gist of it.

    1 Anglican roots.
    2 Original poster knows Dental Floss and vice versa.
    3 Fr Gilchrist.
    4 Corrected by priest.
    5 Sour grapes.
    6 Not part of Melbourne group.
    7 Sick and disturbed individual.
    8 Hearsay.

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  12. Considering that the recommended donation printed on all SGG Mass stipend envelopes is only $25, the young adults would have each contributed a mere 50 cents.

    You people are the most sick, uncharitable creeps I have ever seen calling themselves traditional Catholics. Did it ever occur to you that since this is a group of ADULTS that they are quite capable of taking initiative without prompting from priests? It's called compassion and generosity, two virtues you seem never to have heard of.

    Especially since the deceased was a blood relative of one of the group and was personally known by other members.

    Have some basic decency for a change and just shut up.

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